1. Good fight. I'd put him above Exar though, but Talzin > both so as long as he's against Kun, Talzin will handle the Marka before he either wins or loses, unless he has his scepter. She'd probably open with her green lightning magic, taking on Ragnos first, while Muur takes on Kun and probably mocks him by saying "your powers are moot" and then getting hit with lightning or TK, defending against that, and then going all out on Kun. That fight would go either way from there, but slight majority for Muur IMO, Talzin wins her fight, but the duration of it varies on Ragnos having his scepter or not.
2. I'm siding DM's for majority. While I think the three together would pose a threat to them, there's no way they can handle all six, let alone defend against their TP with almost no history of being able to resist it in the past (sans Kyp, not particularly familiar with him), let alone TP this strong. DM's will surely start with a mental assault, and if they resist it well enough, they'll just finish them off with various sorceries.
3. Tbh Thanaton > all in his fight, and Volfe is second, however if Nomi does her Force Light Wall Sever thing to either, it's gg straight up. Thanaton would probably taunt them a little, saying he's old and wise and beyond their comprehension, followed by striking trying to have Volfe take them on solo, which he'd want to do anyway, and probably not getting downed but pushed back and injured, followed by Thanato wrecking the Jedi with his sorcery like he did Kallig II. Either way, Thanaton and Volfe together are too much for the Jedi, no matter how you play it.
4. Team 2, and it's not close. Valkorion is mvp here, Vaylin is on par(ish, minus drain) with Traya, and with Valkorion here, I can definitely see him doing something like releasing Vaylin's true powers if and only if she uses them to win this fight. If he did though, team 1 could take advantage of their momentary distraction, however I don't see either getting past any of Valky's defenses (seeing as he stated to have allowed himself to be killed by Outlander and Arcann), and with them both at full power, they wreck. Vaylin would definitely abuse her TK, however mainly for intimidation and dicking with Traya before either succumbing to Traya's drain or killing her via TK. During which time Sidious and Valkorion would have a fight to end all fights, ending with Valkorion on top. If Traya downed Vaylin, she's too minuscule to impact the fight and would go down fast and hard, but if Vaylin wins then she could probably land a solid blast of TK on Sheev, either distracting him shortly and giving Valky a chance to kill him or downright knock him off his feet (depending on how drained from his fight or distracted he is), or in the event that Valkorion wins before Valin vs Traya is done then it's game over.
5. This one is hard for me. I hold all these people in a similar tier, Zannah a bit lower than all others but not enough for her not to be a major player in this fight. Id guess she'd go after Nadd first, opening with some TK but avoiding using techniques she learned from his texts. Nadd would use something she herself learns from him and resist it, and it would probably go on like this for a while, with her knowing many of his techniques and hers not being strong enough to affect him much. Eventually the tendrils will be her only option, and I'm not sure how Nadd would handle them. Nox vs Sadow is hard to call for me primarily from both having such extensively powerful sorceries that I have no idea how it'd turn out. I'm leaning Sadow from him having more potent powers, but Nox having superior defenses and a much wider variety of powers and (IMHO) superior FL makes me not so solid on that decision.
Edit: Vaylin would more likely than not be able to resist Traya's drain, though she's be weakened, and probably lash out and kill her with uber TK or a flash of FL, then help her dad kill Sidious. Also probably would do some solid damage to him, rather than my previous statement of just making him stumble.
Re: Mage Battles
Originally posted by SunRazer
1 - Karness Muur and Mother Talzin vs Exar Kun & Marka Ragnos, on Dathomir.
Team 1 10/10. Talzin on Dathomir is Sidious-tier.
2 - Kyp Durron & Darth Vader & Starkiller vs Dread Masters, on Oricon.
Team 1 10/10. RotJ Vader > Starkiller, and black-hole moving, freighter ramming Durron crushes the featless, overhyped Dread Masters.
3 - Leia Organa Solo & Nomi Sunider vs Darth Thanaton & Volfe Karkko, on Dantooine.
Not sure. I'm not very familiar with Karkko, but he seems more powerful than Leia tbh. Nomi is probably more powerful than Thanaton and is probably stronger than Karkko as well, so I'd lean team 1.
4 - Darth Traya & RotJ Darth Sidious vs Valkorion & Vaylin, in the Zakuul Throne Room.
Team 1 10/10. Sidious could solo in all-out.
5 - Freedon Nadd & Naga Sadow vs Darth Zannah & Darth Nox, on Odessen.
Team 1 10/10. Zannah is trash and Nox can't beat them both.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No, you are terribly wrong.Force Storm does not affects spirits and disembodied manifestations, period. Otherwise, Palpatine would have not have survived his own Force Storm
What? I never said Wormholes destroyed spirits, I said they can transmigrate them light-years around the galaxy. If Valkorion turns into a spirit, Sidious can BFR him, which normally counts as a win.
Palpatine is largely helpless in disembodied form while Valkorion can actually affect external environment and surroundings in profound ways.
What has Valkorion done outside of telepathic and possession-based attacks? Because that is something Sidious can do.
Valkorion have history of siphoning energy of Force ghosts held captive inside the Dark Temple.
As a disembodied spirit? When?
I'd say that Valkorion will send Palpatine's essence back to void.
Which, by sheer force of will, Palpatine can escape. Proof that Valkorion can send Palpatine's essence into the void?
Originally posted by SunRazer
What? I never said Wormholes destroyed spirits, I said they can transmigrate them light-years around the galaxy. If Valkorion turns into a spirit, Sidious can BFR him, which normally counts as a win.
Originally posted by SunRazer
What has Valkorion done outside of telepathic and possession-based attacks? Because that is something Sidious can do.
Valkorion could do a lot in disembodied form. He clearly stated that he doesn't needs corporeal vessels to affect the external environment.
I suppose that you are not playing Knights of the Fallen Empire?
Originally posted by SunRazer
As a disembodied spirit? When?
Originally posted by SunRazer
Which, by sheer force of will, Palpatine can escape. Proof that Valkorion can send Palpatine's essence into the void?
Now, if Palpatine's essence comes into contact with a supremely powerful entity that also happens to be hostile, what do you think will happen? Palpatine needs a corporeal vessel to manifest his powers, otherwise he is doomed as in a conflict as a Jedi named Brand proved.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
BFR?
Battlefield removal. Essentially, Palpatine can bring Valkorion to another place in the galaxy, which constitutes as a victory (where I come from, at least).
Didn't I address this part?Valkorion could do a lot in disembodied form. He clearly stated that he doesn't needs corporeal vessels to affect the external environment.
I've read that. You missed some serious context there, including your "it's worth noting that Valkorion could possess people with or without consent, such as his voices".... that, of course, he impregnated with part of his essence beforehand.
I did forget that Valkorion could use rudimentary telekinesis as a disembodied essence, but unfortunately that's not enough to do anything here.
I suppose that you are not playing Knights of the Fallen Empire?
No, I stopped playing TOR before KotFE. I only watch some of the videos on YT.
Valkorion performed this feat while having a Voice and Children
He doesn't have access to any Voice or Children here. And Voice/Children are people that he possesses, so he's not a disembodied spirit there either. "Disembodied" means that he doesn't have a physical form, so the Voice/Children obviously aren't included because Vitiate does have a physical form when he possesses them.
Palpatine's essence doesn't have much offensive and defensive capability and it struggled against the pull of the void just like a normal Force ghost.
A struggle that he won.
Now, if Palpatine's essence comes into contact with a supremely powerful entity that also happens to be hostile, what do you think will happen? Palpatine needs a corporeal vessel to manifest his powers, otherwise he is doomed as in a conflict as a Jedi named Brand proved.
Brand proved that Sidious was doomed when "every Jedi that had went before" and Brand himself made sure that Sidious would never escape Chaos again.
In this case, neither essence can destroy the other. The difference is, Sidious can still rend space to BFR Valkorion's essence, which is a win.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Battlefield removal. Essentially, Palpatine can bring Valkorion to another place in the galaxy, which constitutes as a victory (where I come from, at least).
You cannot attack what you cannot see. This is why Jedi and Sith were unable to do anything about Valkorion on Ziost. 🙂
Originally posted by SunRazer
I've read that. You missed some serious context there, including your "it's worth noting that Valkorion could possess people with or without consent, such as his voices".... that, of course, he impregnated with part of his essence beforehand.
???
Originally posted by SunRazer
I did forget that Valkorion could use rudimentary telekinesis as a disembodied essence, but unfortunately that's not enough to do anything here.
Originally posted by SunRazer
No, I stopped playing TOR before KotFE. I only watch some of the videos on YT.
You understand the events in the game better when you play it.
Originally posted by SunRazer
He doesn't have access to any Voice or Children here. And Voice/Children are people that he possesses, so he's not a disembodied spirit there either. "Disembodied" means that he doesn't have a physical form, so the Voice/Children obviously aren't included because Vitiate does have a physical form when he possesses them.
What do you think Children are? Extensions of will.
Valkorion was essentially an "essence" during the events of SWTOR. Voices and Children were secondary stuff; they collectively expanded his reach across the galaxy.
Originally posted by SunRazer
A struggle that he won.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Brand proved that Sidious was doomed when "every Jedi that had went before" and Brand himself made sure that Sidious would never escape Chaos again.
Several (neutral) sources including a few DE sources credit only Jedi Brand for vanquishing Palpatine's essence.
Originally posted by SunRazer
In this case, neither essence can destroy the other. The difference is, Sidious can still rend space to BFR Valkorion's essence, which is a win.
Valkorion can affect other Force ghosts; examples provided above. Should he attempt to dispatch a lingering essence back to void, I don't see why he cannot do that with his powers or certain techniques.
CIP: Exar Kun destroyed Freedon Nadd's Force ghost with Force blasts. Ergo, weaken them enough and they won't be able to resist the pull of void.
Originally posted by SunRazer
There'd be a discussion if it didn't already happen, as my quote proves. Moreover, essences still travel through space - certainly Vitiate's does.