TOR Sith Empire vs PT Republic

Originally posted by Selenial
I agree, the millions quote is overtrusted and not solid enough evidence. The sourcebook is an in universe one, and it goes against every other era of Star Wars. Hell, even the authors of the book, when contacted, put the Sith order near the tens of thousands, not millions.

Originally posted by Selenial
I find it amusing how people argue relentlessly about whether the quotes on Sidious being the strongest Sith are valid, that there couldn't possibly be quadrillions of battle droids and it's simply hyperbole... yet fall to their knees and bow at the site of a quote contradicting every Star Wars story ever written.

Wasn't it just another of Karpyshan's non-answers? Lol.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
See Selenial.

I did. I'm unimpressed.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Give me a single source in TOR supporting any of this. Even one. I want to see the other academies. I'm still waiting for the source of there being hundreds of thousands of Sith planets, and you've given nothing to back your claims.

Sure!

Many Sith spend their lives plotting their ascension to the Council, but with MILLIONS vying for only 12 seats, the competition is cutthroat."

And:

"MILLIONS of the galaxy's most powerful Sith were considered, but ultimately only one would prove worthy to serve the Emperor."

TBH. 👆

Dude, you don't need to see the other academies. Obviously they didn't use Korriban until a few decades before TOR. You think they trained in their backyards with sticks? Lol. Scourge states he trained in an academy on Kaas' City's borders. I don't have exact figures on the Empires size but given that Marr states they were losing something like a dozen systems a day in RotH's, clearly the Empire contains a sizeable amount of territory.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Maybe because his very important family didn't want him being kidnapped by the Jedi and forced into chastity. Just maybe.

So not every child was tested. I win. excellent

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wasn't it just another of Karpyshan's non-answers? Lol.

I did. I'm unimpressed.

Sure!

Many Sith spend their lives plotting their ascension to the Council, but with MILLIONS vying for only 12 seats, the competition is cutthroat."

And:

"MILLIONS of the galaxy's most powerful Sith were considered, but ultimately only one would prove worthy to serve the Emperor."

TBH. 👆

Dude, you don't need to see the other academies. Obviously they didn't use Korriban until a few decades before TOR. You think they trained in their backyards with sticks? Lol. Scourge states he trained in an academy on Kaas' City's borders.

I don't have exact figures on the Empires size but given that Marr states they were losing something like a dozen systems a day in RotH's, clearly the Empire contains a sizeable amount of territory.

So not every child was tested. I win. excellent

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And even if each of those planets had 7 billion people, which I doubt, that'd be a little over 30.6 trillion people in the Sith Empire. To even get a million Sith, let alone millions, the rate of Force Sensitivity would have to be astronomical compared to what it is in any other time period, which is ridiculous to say the least.

10,000 Jedi Knights is the current number, Beni; and the highest the Jedi has likely ever seen. You and Neph can hate that all you want, but it's consistent and in more than one source.

Isn't "you can hate it all you want" kind of our line? 😆

Lmao. You sorely overestimate how invested I am in this argument. I merely believe that millions of Sith is a claim logistically possible.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't have exact figures on the Empires size but given that Marr states they were losing something like a dozen systems a day in RotH's, clearly the Empire contains a sizeable amount of territory. [/B]

Quote please. My recollection is losing a handfull of systems to keep the strike team hidden from view...

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I merely believe that millions of Sith is a claim logistically possible.

No it's not.

PT Republic's population >>> TOR Empire's population. So how does it make sense for the SE to have 100x more force users when not only they have a smaller population but they kill failures unlike the jedi?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Can you provide a quote? That would clear the matter up.

Will have to root through like 6 separate email accounts, but sure, I'll have a look.

Yes, its so terribly amusing when people try to make sense of canon, rather than dismiss the source material as wrong. 😬

Explain to me how dismissing such a fallible source is less canon-preserving than accepting one era out of dozens has an extortionately higher rate of force sensitives for no apparent reason?

To be honest, there is another example we can look to. The Sith Troopers of Krayt's empire supposedly numbered in the millions, but it makes no sense. Krayt was stealing them all from Korriban, yet since the One Sith did not number in the multi-millions, he could not have stolen such a vast number. Furthermore, he telepathically dominates each Sith Trooper, even I would not suggest he can communicate with a million beasts at once. So no one takes the ****ing quote seriously, you two could learn a lesson from that.

Originally posted by Selenial
mmm

Will have to root through like 6 separate email accounts, but sure, I'll have a look.

Explain to me how dismissing such a fallible source is less canon-preserving than accepting one era out of dozens has an extortionately higher rate of force sensitives for no apparent reason?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
As it's already been said, in the TOR era both Jedi are Sith are visibly more populous. So you are stuck with it either way.

Depends on your source material. Most of the TOR planets are all huge battlegroud worlds, and we've seen those amounts of force users fighting in both the Legacy era and Clone Wars Era.... The KotOR era too....

Where? The First Battle of Geonosis is the only one that comes to mind, which was probably because it was the only battle in the galaxy at that point which both sides literally fielding everything they had.

However if you look at say the Battle of Umbara or the Second Battle of Geonosis, there are only 3, 4 Jedi on the field. Compared to the scores of Sith present in the Battle of Alderaan, or the 50-man strike team that attacks the Jedi Temple, and the amount of fodder Sith in-game is considerable.

EDIT: In fact now I remember, Palpatine said that dedicating a mere 6 Jedi to the Battle of Geonosis was reckless indicating this was exceptional.

On top of that as a Sith Empire, dark siders were present in every strata of political life, these guys coming out of the woodwork every which place you look.

A potential explanation being that the Sith (and Jedi) were more aggressive in their recruitment during war time. It also stands to reason that due to 99% of the Sith population having pureblood heritage, they had an unnaturally high Force sensitivity.

I can get on board with that, to an extent.

Imagine however that the Sith Empire existed during the Clone Wars. By the number of force users in the galaxy, for simplicity's sake we can say 5,000 of the Jedi would have ended up as Sith instead. What you are suggesting is that blood purity would have increased the number of Force Sensitives not ten fold, not one hundred fold, but at least a thousand times over. That is frankly ludicrous.

I do not dispute that there are more Sith in Vitiate's empire than the Clone Wars Jedi Order, but your mathematics is failing you. We've seen numerous Jedi fight on the battlefield before in one battle. 6 Jedi masters along with knights were committed to Hypori. Assuming there were equal numbers of knights as masters (when realistically there should be more) your mathematics indicates we should have seen a minimum of 12,000 Sith in a battle of that scale.... Right.

Instead, as you rightfully point out, we see one of the most important and galactic war deciding events contain only 50 Sith. We see at most 100 Sith during the battle for Alderaan, one of the largest battles of the war. That does not imply an order being over 1,000 times the size of the Prequel trilogy Jedi, but perhaps 10 times.

Agreed. The last time we had this discussion, I had similar thoughts. Hundreds of thousands of Sith make a lot more sense than millions. Blood purity isn't even as extreme in the Empire as you're making it seem anyway.

The Jedi Order's numbers are unnaturally small given the size of the galaxy.

None of this really matters due to the tech disparity, that and they consider 50,000 troops to be unprecedented for an Army. I suspect they'll shit their pants when they see a Clone Sector Army on their ass.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The Jedi Order's numbers are unnaturally small given the size of the galaxy.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
None of this really matters due to the tech disparity, that and they consider 50,000 troops to be unprecedented for an Army. I suspect they'll shit their pants when they see a Clone Sector Army on their ass.