Don't like double posting, but I forgot to mention that if Palpatine made something akin to a Black Hole, he would technically have force energy equivalent to at least a Supernova, since to my understanding that's how black holes originate. Also, the Desolator is a chain reaction weapon, it doesn't use brute force like turbolasers use. That's not really a good analogy. If there were survivors on the planet as well that's a horrible showing for the Desolator.
Originally posted by The Merchant
Don't like double posting, but I forgot to mention that if Palpatine made something akin to a Black Hole, he would technically have force energy equivalent to at least a Supernova, since to my understanding that's how black holes originate. Also, the Desolator is a chain reaction weapon, it doesn't use brute force like turbolasers use. That's not really a good analogy. If there were survivors on the planet as well that's a horrible showing for the Desolator.
There were according to the cutscenes, heck there were still starships on the planet that tried leaving before they ended up crashing back in the planet. The Republic then sent food, shelter and medical supplies to the planet after to help the survivors and could land a Republic warship on the planet.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I mean based on the literal appearance, it was probably a massive death field, like the power Bane used to kill dem cultists.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
That said, nah, Valkorion isn't above Sidious yet, and he may never be.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Sidious had gathered the most arcane knowledge from a million worlds and countless cultures, whether they be dark side, light side, or the zeishon sha, is rumored to have mastered nearly every (dark side or literally every idr) power ever known and devise new ones as he pleases, has the Banite trove of knowledge to scour, Naga Sadow's holocron, who basically held all the knowledge passed down through the ancient sith on down to Kun, etc. While Vitiate lived waaaaay longer, Palpatine had waaaaay more access to knowledge than Vitiate, so force mastery is probably still in Palpatine's favor.
I also believe that knowledge-base of the ancient Sith Empire was more vast then that of Palpatine. Reason is that wars and traitors would lead to destruction of a great number of Sith artifacts and holocrons with passage of time. Even during the era of Bannite Sith, Darth Gravid destroyed a great number of Sith treasure. Though Palpatine had greater luck at rediscovering some ancient secrets then Darth Plagueis. Then there is also the fact that Vitiate did not make a holocron and/or preferred to not share his knowledge with others to a great extent.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
This is supported when you consider his ultimate mastery over rage to culminate in the force storm, whereas very few have even mastered the force maelstrom, (in fact, Malgus is the only definite one I can think of).
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
He's implied to be capable of stomping Galen Marek,
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
was unfazed by Marek's point blank suicide oneness bomb that could be seen from far outside the Death Star
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
telepathically rapes Vader from across the galaxy,
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
mindrapes the 20 billion population of Byss and constantly feeds on their life force,
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
mindwipes millions of people to hide a star destroyer, etc. This is all before becoming far more formidable by Dark Empire, where he could summon the almighty force storms with inclination and at a light years distance.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Did I forget to mention this guy is one of the top 2-3 lightsaber duelists of all time?
But Valkorion can palm the Lightsaber.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Agreed.
1. Glad you agree. Another thought: What if it literally is just pure dark side energy? As in, the technique itself was to kill every being on the planet, and then he'd just feed on their deaths naturally like he did on Yavin and throughout Ziost? I mean, it'd explain if you think his attack ****ed up the buildings.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
A solid case for Valkorion have been made: http://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/s_w_legend/blog/cheating-corporeal-death-and-abilities-outside-a-c/126610/
2. I completely agree that Valkorion has superceded Sidious in terms of Immortality, not that this should have ever been an argument.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Valkorion is stated to have explored [B]the most sinister and uncharted depths of the Dark Side; relentless pursuit of immortality motivated him towards this end. Even when we consider actual demonstrations; Valkorion have demonstrated a greater variety of (and more arcane) techniques then Palpatine.I also believe that knowledge-base of the ancient Sith Empire was more vast then that of Palpatine. Reason is that wars and traitors would lead to destruction of a great number of Sith artifacts and holocrons with passage of time. Even during the era of Bannite Sith, Darth Gravid destroyed a great number of Sith treasure. Though Palpatine had greater luck at rediscovering some ancient secrets then Darth Plagueis. Then there is also the fact that Vitiate did not make a holocron and/or preferred to not share his knowledge with others to a great extent.[/B]
3. Well see, I understand that Vitiate explored, "the most sinister and uncharted depths of the dark side," but that hardly precludes Palpatine having superior force knowledge based on the following:
"Palpatine has spent decades studying the most arcane and esoteric Jedi disciplines. It is believed that he has mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones at his pleasure."
""With the resources of a galaxy at his disposal, he gathered the greatest works of knowledge from over a million worlds. He studied the Force in all its guises throughout the galaxy, whether it was the shamanism of the Jarvashqiine or the tales of the Tyia. Coupled with perversions of the secrets he ripped from the living minds of Jedi he captured during the Purge, he learned more than he ever expected."
I mean, this dude had all the knowledge the Banite Line gathered, which despite Gravid's machinations were still absolutely immense, Naga Sadow's holocron, which is pretty much what would have held alot of the knowledge of Ancients like Nadd and Exar Kun, plus an entire galaxy's worth of force knowledge from the most arcane jedi disciplines to the most obscure shamans. He simply had access to so much more than what Vitiate during his reign because the latter was either disinterested or simply needed the dark side alone as a means to an end. So even if were to simply assume that Vitiate has more dark side knowledge, (which I'm not 100% confident in,) Palpatine has studied far more than merely the dark side.
Now, as far as showing is concerned? Sure, Vitiate's display on Ziost may have been a more potent expression of death field/force drain, it's no more esoteric than Palpatine siphoning the energies of the people on Byss. Vitiate has shown illusions/doppelgangers, but I'd wager that given Sidious has studied Naga Sadow's holocron, he'd have knowledge of conjuring illusions and what not at bare minimum.
Other than that, in terms of what they've shown, it's really just Valk's weird lightning/dark blast attack and his flow walk. To counter, Sidious is the sole known master in the whole sw mythos of the Force Storm, and in turn the Force Maelstrom, a technique that Malgus is the only other known user of.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Palpatine did not pioneer Force Storm. This power was discovered earlier.
4. While yes, Palpatine didn't directly pioneer or create the force storm, the fact remains that Palpatine is the only known force user to summon a multitude of them to such a devastating extent, and with such effortless inevitability to boot. There's simply no other force user who's been able to directly destroy matter on such a cosmic scale other than presumably Abeloth, the Bedlam Spirits/Celestials, etc.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Not sure about stomp but he could defeat Galen Marek soundly.
5. I stated "implied" based on both the dark side ending of TFU coupled with the quote that Galen was ultimately no match for Sheev.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
So did Darth Vader.
6. Vader wasn't at point blank range, though. He was much farther away, and wasn't the target/core of the blast.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Valkorion did something similar to Exal Kressh.
7. Yes, but if we're considering that one's telepathy is based on their strength in the force, (as is implied in the mission codex when the Hero goes to fight Vitiate,) and that Vader is more powerful than Kressh in the force, (Note: Not diminishing Exal,) Sidious's feat remains more impressive. There's also Sidious dominating DE Luke mentally to the point where the latter forgot his own name.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Over an extended period of time (like years). Byss's population was also loyal to Palpatine so mind-raping it wasn't as challenging as it sounds.
8. I'd argue that it's no less impressive than Vitiate dominating the population of Ziost. While yes, Vitiate was weakened, and yes, he dominated actual force users, not only is it unclear as to the real population of such a barren and desolate world like Ziost, but Vitiate actually had to expend effort dominating the planet's populace to the point that he couldn't influence/take control of stronger wills like Lana Beniko, whereas Sidious could casually keep the people of Byss subjugated and siphon their energies from across the galaxy on a daily basis.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Valkorion telepathically subjugated the entire populace of Ziost in a span of some hours or a day or two at maximum. The affected included battle-hardened troops and Jedi Masters. The affected were not loyal to Valkorion either. You won't find a greater demonstration of Telepathy then this.
9. Covered above. Heck, I'd argue that Vitiate's domination of the Jedi Strike Team/Revan and Malak/the 8000 sith lords on Nathema are more impressive than his telepathic displays on Ziost.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes.But Valkorion can palm the Lightsaber.
10. Yes, Valkorion can palm Arcann's lightsaber. Against a force user far more powerful than Arcann like Sidious? It's gonna be a little harder. 🙂
Taking every single Jedi in history to temporarily cut Sidious of from the force>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ziost
Originally posted by Haschwalth
Taking every single Jedi in history to temporarily cut Sidious of from the force>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ziost
That literally never happened. That only happened when Brand merged with the Force and took Sheev's spirit with him.
Though it did take Kyle Katarn channelling all of the Jedi spirits in the Valley of the Jedi to sever Jerec's connection to the thought bomb. Which is funny considering how Vitiate's Nathema ritual was more potent in every way to the Thought Bomb. He's also the living incarnatoon of that ritual, unlike Jerec who was merely amped by it.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
What technique could Valkorion use if he wanted to destroy starfleets from across the galaxy?
You-you aren't serious? I mean, that's Dread Master tier. At least try to think of something impressive.
Originally posted by carthage
Christ you’re a retard