Darth Plagueis vs. Valkorion

On another note, it's worth mentioning only Sidious, Plagueis, and Vitiate have really evolved beyond the limits of midichlorians among the main characters.

Plagueis has done this via midichlorian manipulation, but frankly, Vitiate and Sidious' draining of millions and billions respectively is going to yield greater results.

Again, Vitiate absorbed the power of eight-thousand of the "most powerful" Sith Lords of the era, along with the rest of the life and Force energy of the planet. While the argument that this was primarily aimed to fuel his immortality is true, effectively becoming a god was just as important, and while there's no precedent to really set on how much energy is needed to achieve such, I think we can all agree that a majority of the energy should still be there in Vitiate's reserves. Add on leeching off Revan's power for three-centuries and wiping clean the powerful nexus of Ziost, and we certainly have a character that is logically considerably more powerful than Plagueis. Of course noting Vitiate was already a prodigy of almost unprecedented proportions even before beginning all his draining, too.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Assuming the SW Galaxy is as large as our own it contains hundreds of billions of planets.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Pretty sure the SW Galaxy is bigger.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Really? Seems a lot smaller.

Well I'm getting conflicting data with our galaxy, so it might be bigger or the same.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I think we can all agree that a majority of the energy should still be there in Vitiate's reserves.

Why would we do that? If Vitiatestill had that sort of power available to him after being weakened he would have lost to pre KotFE HoT.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Add on leeching off Revan's power for three-centuries and wiping clean the powerful nexus of Ziost, and we certainly have a character that is logically considerably more powerful than Plagueis.

Unfortunately I'd have to disagree with that stance due to the reasons I listed in my previous post.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Why would we do that? If Vitiatestill had that sort of power available to him after being weakened he would have lost to pre KotFE HoT.

As powerful as planetary reserves + thousands of Sith would be, the amount of energy needed to initiate a galactic ritual would likely take a vast majority of it, if not actually more than what Vitiate has to offer.

Granted, that's just my speculation, but I imagine you'd agree.

Unfortunately I'd have to disagree with that stance due to the reasons I listed in my previous post.

The Plagueis feat isn't quantifiable for a versus engagement. Think of it this way:

In a fight, a character has, like, 0.5 seconds to unleash a Force attack.

If they channel their energy for a full second, wouldn't that mean they're unleashing twice the power?

Consider multiple months in deep meditation with your entire will focused on something.

Then add the most powerful Sith Lord in history next to you doing the same thing.

That's like 9999999999x times the power you're ever going to see them actually use.

Plagueis' feat is insane by all accounts, but it's just not usable unless you want to completely eyeball it.

1. Considering Vitiate was going to be using the accumulative Darkside energy of a galactic spanning war that lasted decades to help power it, I can't say I agree. But even if that were the case, what would that have to do with the energy he was left with in his weakened state?

2. It is though. We know either he or Sidious had to provide at least 1/2 of the energy which powered the feat ( it's a basic mathematical concept, if 2 values are added together to create a whole then 1 of those values needs to equal at least 1/2 of the total of the whole ), personally I believe that to be Plagueis, though you made a good point about Sidious possibly providing more power to the feat.

With the above we just need to know the energy required to carry out the feat itself which we'd then divide by 2 and the correlating fraction of the amount of time it took to accomplish the feat. Since it took several months to accomplish we'd divide the energy output of the feat by the number of seconds in that time span if we wanted to see how much energy Sidious and Plagueis could summon cumulatively in a single second.

Thanks to the TFU campaign guide and Force and Nexuses we know that the energy output is equivalent to the passive energy output of many many worlds Force attuned populations.

TL;DR: However many populated, force attuned worlds would have needed to have shifted their Force alignments to bring about the imbalance to the degree Sidious and Plagueis carried out divided by 2 divided again by 259,200 ( seconds in a month ) shows us the energy output that Plagueis and Sidious have. Obviously the second number would be even large since it was several months. I just don't the exact amount of time it took.

Where are you getting this BS about all the accumulative dark side energy gathered over the war? Hall Hood confirmed he only needed one major act of simultaneous deaths, a few million, for him to be successful.

It was literally just more fuel for his own energy reserves, which given its galactic scale, is perfectly understandable.

However, when you then add Ziost to his reserves and you suddenly cross that boost off of the list.

So Valkorion is arguably capable of doing the ritual all by himself. But as has been explained, he no longer desired galactic annihilation. His fear of death was gone, and the Eternal Empire surviving on its own changed his outlook.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Of which we've no reason to believe would have been substantiated by Vitiate's sheer power or will, suffusing the entire galaxy with the dark side through said means is far more impressive, yeah.

Per the SWTOR codex, it took Vitiate a millennium of prep to even attempt such a ritual. The most resonant conclusion of Ant's recent analysis is that however prodigious Valkoriate may be, Plagueis and Sidious each outclass him in terms of raw talent.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
I think the SW Galaxy is bigger.

It's about the same size as the Milky Way. ~400 billion stars + 100k lightyears diameter.

Originally posted by AncientPower
He's literally stated to have invested his power into the Dark Ritual, and that's why he was weak enough to kill on Dromund Kaas.

So no, Vitiate's feat is of an entirely greater magnitude, and he didn't need one of the most powerful Sith ever to assist him either.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
For events that involve deep meditation over months, I imagine Sidious' raw power is going to impact more than Plagueis' active power, since that sort of stuff generally involves diving into reserves and hidden power.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
On another note, it's worth mentioning only Sidious, Plagueis, and Vitiate have really evolved beyond the limits of midichlorians among the main characters.

Plagueis has done this via midichlorian manipulation, but frankly, Vitiate and Sidious' draining of millions and billions respectively is going to yield greater results.

Again, Vitiate absorbed the power of eight-thousand of the "most powerful" Sith Lords of the era, along with the rest of the life and Force energy of the planet. While the argument that this was primarily aimed to fuel his immortality is true, effectively becoming a god was just as important, and while there's no precedent to really set on how much energy is needed to achieve such, I think we can all agree that a majority of the energy should still be there in Vitiate's reserves. Add on leeching off Revan's power for three-centuries and wiping clean the powerful nexus of Ziost, and we certainly have a character that is logically considerably more powerful than Plagueis. Of course noting Vitiate was already a prodigy of almost unprecedented proportions even before beginning all his draining, too.

Regardless you're wrong, given the extremely taxing nature of Force drain on the individual, it's likely much of that energy was expended in consuming the planet.

'Millennium' man the bull is strong with this one. 😂

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
TL;DR: However many populated, force attuned worlds would have needed to have shifted their Force alignments to bring about the imbalance to the degree Sidious and Plagueis carried out divided by 2 divided again by 259,200 ( seconds in a month ) shows us the energy output that Plagueis and Sidious have. Obviously the second number would be even large since it was several months. I just don't the exact amount of time it took.

Honesty isn't AP's thing, but if other, interested parties should be interested:

AP is true cancer, she keeps coming back worse and worse until you had enough and just let it do it's thing.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Uhuh, the fact that the ritual demanded power from the wielder does not mean it was substantiated entirely or even mostly by him, obviously. Nice try tho.

Lmfao there are literally just two sources of power here, and given Vitiate goes on to absorb Ziost's flora and fauna, one of them's irrelevant when talking about Valkorion.

Valkorion can reduce the galaxy to a lifeless, colorless void without temperature amd kill the Force in the process.

GG, no re.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Honesty isn't AP's thing, but if other, interested parties should be interested:

So igniting a galactic war between the Empire and Republic with the end goal of causing massive death via the war to fuel his ritual. . . equates to literally preparing his ritual for a thousand years? 😂

Your desperation is absolutely delightful.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Lmfao there are literally just two sources of power here, and given Vitiate goes on to absorb Ziost's flora and fauna, one of them's irrelevant when talking about Valkorion.

If the billions of simultaneous deaths were "irrelevant" in performing the ritual. He would not have needed billions of simultaneous deaths to perform the ritual. And Ziost does nothing to alter that I'm afraid.

Valkorion can reduce the galaxy to a lifeless, colorless void without temperature amd kill the Force in the process.

GG, no re.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
😂

If the billions of simultaneous deaths were "irrelevant" in performing the ritual. He would not have needed billions of simultaneous deaths to perform the ritual. Are you really this stupid?

You might want to ask yourself that question given you clearly can't comprehend basic logic.

Vitiate required millions of deaths at once as fuel for his ritual. Vitiate massively empowered himself, permanently, by devastating Ziost. Ergo, Valkorion who is far more powerful is going to need far less aid than he would have before Ziost.

Which part of this is difficult for you to grasp, exactly?