Originally posted by cs_zoltan
AP is true cancer, she keeps coming back worse and worse until you had enough and just let it do it's thing.
It's certainly interesting to check in every now and then and see how much further she's deteriorated.
I'm surprised she hasn't mentioned the cinematic filter yet.
Originally posted by AncientPowerI'm not seeing any evidence he was using it as fuel sorry.
You might want to ask yourself that question given you clearly can't comprehend basic logic.Vitiate required millions of deaths at once as fuel for his ritual. Vitiate massively empowered himself, permanently, by devastating Ziost. Ergo, Valkorion who is far more powerful is going to need far less aid than he would have before Ziost.
Which part of this is difficult for you to grasp, exactly?
Instead as I've previously described, given that the life force of billions of people does not in reality net galaxy busting powers, and given that there would be no reason for these deaths to be simultaneous if he were only draining them, it should be obvious that the purpose was instead to trigger a disturbance in the Force he could harness.
So yeah, Ziost is irrelevant. And suggesting that Valk could gobble up the galaxy whenever he wanted is kekworthy nonsense.
Originally posted by The_TempestIt's about the same size as the Milky Way. ~400 billion stars + 100k lightyears diameter.
That's where I'm getting conflicting info, I'm seeing also 100 billion stars when I look it up, as well as the 400.
So I guess it's more to say the MWG has anywhere from 100-400 billion stars, the SWG has exactly 400 billion stars.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
If you don't disagree with the above then here's why it's more impressive then Vitiate's feat. Sidious and Plagueis unbalanced the Force on a galactic scale. They did so to the point that not only the Jedi could feel it but all innately powerful Force sensitives. They did this to a Galaxy where the alignment was leaning leaning torwards the Light or at the very least, was in balance. According to the TFU campaign guide and Force and Nexuses, a planets force alignment is based off of the passive Force energy generated by their population. Assuming the SW Galaxy is as large as our own it contains hundreds of billions of planets. Sidious and Plagueis would have needed to match the energy output of millions of planets over those months to had the impact they did. Even dividing their energy output to what they could summon at a moments notice they'd still be capable of matching the energy output of dozens of planets.
2. Darth(s) Plagueis and Palpatine faced no tug-of-war or resistance during their act of tilting the balance of the Force further.
3. Individuals do not shift the balance of the Force with applications of raw power; their deeds influence it (automatically).
I see so much bullshit in regards to mechanics of balance of the Force these days. This is not a physical exercise.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Where are you getting this BS about all the accumulative dark side energy gathered over the war? Hall Hood confirmed he only needed one major act of simultaneous deaths, a few million, for him to be successful.It was literally just more fuel for his own energy reserves, which given its galactic scale, is perfectly understandable.
However, when you then add Ziost to his reserves and you suddenly cross that boost off of the list.
So Valkorion is arguably capable of doing the ritual all by himself. But as has been explained, he no longer desired galactic annihilation. His fear of death was gone, and the Eternal Empire surviving on its own changed his outlook.
Could you get me the quote where it says Vitiate only needed a few million deaths to activate the ritual?
Originally posted by Beniboybling
The alignment of living entities in the galaxy remained the same.
Of course. I'm saying to have shifted the alignment of the Galaxy ( or the universe ) they would have needed to match or exceed the energy output of the combined populations necessary for that shift. Not necessarily that the alignment of the living individuals was changed. Though, Sidious does suggests something similar to this during the Empire era with the GE producing hatred, anger and xenophobia throughout its population and increasing the power of the Darkside throughout the Galaxy and the Darkside further fueling those emotions.
Let's be honest. Though the Plagueis/Sidious ritual is probably the most cosmically epic Force feat in all of Legends, it is also hilariously stupid from a writing and thematic perspective. The Emperor upsetting the balance of the Force was far better written when it was the result of him being a powerful Force user using his powers and his cunning to sow discord among the galaxy, not by him literally taking the Force to the mat and it tapping out.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
1. Balance of the Force had been shifting before that ritual due to a number of developments in the past including corruption becoming widespread. Jedi are guardians of peace and could do little to address this menace.2. Darth(s) Plagueis and Palpatine faced no tug-of-war or resistance during their act of tilting the balance of the Force further.
3. Individuals do not shift the balance of the Force with applications of raw power; their deeds influence it (automatically).
I see so much bullshit in regards to mechanics of balance of the Force these days. This is not a physical exercise.
1. Then according to the sources I mentioned, the o=cumulative population was leaning more towards the Darkside at that point in time.
2. Never claimed they did.
3. Considering the Plagueis novel states Sidious and Plagueis did exactly that, you're wrong.
The energy needed to accomplish the feat is measurable per canonical sources and basic mathematical principles. I don't see what the problem is.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Let's be honest. Though the Plagueis/Sidious ritual is probably the most cosmically epic Force feat in all of Legends, it is also hilariously stupid from a writing and thematic perspective. The Emperor upsetting the balance of the Force was far better written when it was the result of him being a powerful Force user using his powers and his cunning to sow discord among the galaxy, not by him literally taking the Force to the mat and it tapping out.
Eh, I kinda agree but kinda don't. I agree that it shouldn't have been some random ritual that came out of nowhere, but I like the idea of Palpatine "poisoning" the Force with his power.
To draw a parallel with another fictional character, I'd compare it to what the Father from Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood was doing (dunno if you've seen the show).
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
1. Then according to the sources I mentioned, the o=cumulative population was leaning more towards the Darkside at that point in time.2. Never claimed they did.
3. Considering the Plagueis novel states Sidious and Plagueis did exactly that, you're wrong.
The energy needed to accomplish the feat is measurable per canonical sources and basic mathematical principles. I don't see what the problem is.
They communed with the Force for months non-stop in order to unbalance it further; this makes sense because deeds (automatically) influence the balance non-stop. Circumstances of the time facilitated this shift due to corruption being rampant and Jedi being unaware of presence of Sith and therefore resistance was unlikely.
They did not use the Force to affect its balance. Your assumption is an oxymoron.
Conversely, the Jedi were scratching their heads, thinking what the hell is going on. They are essentially guardians of peace; not enforcers of moral values. They were also unaware of presence of Sith or they would have acted.
Originally posted by Azronger
Eh, I kinda agree but kinda don't. I agree that it shouldn't have been some random ritual that came out of nowhere, but I like the idea of Palpatine "poisoning" the Force with his power.
Originally posted by Azronger
To draw a parallel with another fictional character, I'd compare it to what the Father from Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood was doing (dunno if you've seen the show).
Exactly. But what place does something like that have in Star Wars? Well, I could say the same about galaxy-wide nom noms, but still.
Originally posted by Azronger
Eh, I kinda agree but kinda don't. I agree that it shouldn't have been some random ritual that came out of nowhere, but I like the idea of Palpatine "poisoning" the Force with his power.To draw a parallel with another fictional character, I'd compare it to what the Father from Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood was doing (dunno if you've seen the show).
Well that's why I was sure to mention both. Obviously it would and should be farfetched that a non-Force using mook could throw the Force out of balance, so there's an element of power that should be involved, but the way Luceno wrote it was just absolutely gratuitous.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
facepalmThey communed with the Force for months non-stop in order to unbalance it further; this makes sense because [B]deeds
(automatically) influence the balance non-stop. Circumstances of the time facilitated this shift due to corruption being rampant and Jedi being unaware of presence of Sith and therefore resistance was unlikely.They did not use the Force to affect its balance. Your assumption is an oxymoron.
Conversely, the Jedi were scratching their heads, thinking what the hell is going on. They are essentially guardians of peace; not enforcers of moral values. They were also unaware of presence of Sith or they would have acted. [/B]
Why did you underline the word "communed?" Are you suggesting they asked the Force politely to unbalance itself?
How?
What are you even talking about? What does the Jedi knowing about the Sith have to do with the feat?
Originally posted by NewGuy01
I mean the story about sentient trashcans and magic space monks shouldn't warrant a cosmic arm wrestling match with the driving force of the universe.
If you're putting it like that, then I guess you have a point. But looking at the bigger picture, I don't see the issue of having a single high tier being in an otherwise (relatively) low tier setting.
Going back to the comparison with Father, he could, with the snap of his fingers, remove the alchemy of every single alchemist in the country, basically the entire setting in which the story takes place - and also one-shot and stomp the entire main cast which included the most powerful alchemists in the lore. That's absurdly OP for the average power level of the show, which is generally around building level. But it never seemed out of place, mainly because it was presented well and made sense within the contexts and logic of the show, even if way out of proportion, power-wise.