No dominating them with TK, without gesturing, be it in the original game or the cut content, is comparable. What has he done that far surpasses ragdolling three high tier masters of the Force, who are stated to be some of the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy?
Vader > Traya, obviously, but the idea that he's 'slaughtering' her or Nyriss is as stupid as him ragdoll stomping Meetra Surik.
Originally posted by MythLord
Apparently Traya Force Draining Council Masters who only have decent-ish feats in TK puts her on Vader's level.
lmao.
Three Council Members with solid Telekinesis feats were ragdolled by her. **** drain, drain isn't even relevant to her best feats.
The fact is, Traya isn't flashy. Traya has only appeared in a game. Traya doesn't dominate everyone she meets because she's subtle.
She has, however, killed a dozen Sith Assassins (who were Dark Jedi Masters in Revan's army, converted from the strongest military Jedi the galaxy has ever seen) without even a gesture. She's dominated every powerful force user she's ever met, bar Surik. That includes long-serving members of the council, the strongest Sith in Nihilus' entire empire, and Darth Sion.
Even outside the sphere of Alter, she has some of the greatest Sense feats in the mythos, rivalling Darth Caedus and Yoda. On Malachor, she dodged the strikes of a Jedi Guardian capable of blitzing five martial arts masters, while restrained and trying to save their lives.
Her upper limit has only ever been displayed by The Exile, so judging the Exile by calling Traya weak, and Traya by saying The Exile is featless is circular logic and nigh-retarded. Applying Nyriss as a measuring stick is also a fallacy, given Surik's loss of her greatest asset, and the fact Nyriss has only ever appeared in one source.
I don't think anyone's even saying Traya >= Vader, but she is certainly up there. And given the stipulations around the Malachor feat, it's applicable to a fight with Vader.
In fairness, her upper limit was also exposed when Nihilus and Sion turned on her.
That said, I've taken the stance that Nihilus (at the time, at least) wasn't above her in the way that everybody else suggests. If he was, why would he need Sion's help to take her down? Sources indicate that the two collectively took away her powers, and Traya's attention was clearly divided when Nihilus threw her into the wall.
You really don't get it in so many ways.Meetra isn't Ferus Olin or Starkiller, she's tanked attacks from Traya and ended her regardless. Traya easily stomping powerful Jedi Council members who are certainly not 'mooks' is well within Vader tier, no matter how badly you try and lowball the entire era.
You keep and have posted for pages now She's "IN VADER'S tier" without posting any feats to make your posts believable. These same masters have nothing going on for them other than shit like this:
HOLY **** HE SPUN HIS LIGHTSABER BLADE!
These guys have their pictures posted in the dictionary next to the term cannon fodder. Vader can choke SK who would vaporize Surik like a frigate, but she obviously can resist Sion so that means something, right? 😂
Darth Nyriss' Bane+ tier lightning has kmocked Meetra over amd kept her down. Importantly you lack, as usual, any context in your arguments. Firstly, Meetra only raised an instinctual Force barrier to save herself from the worst of Nyriss' lightning. She didn't have any time to prepare a proper Tutaminis defensive and yet still held off lightning that has husked armoured guards. Perhaps even more importantly, this is a dark side nexus that has even hindered FOTJ Luke Skywalker, the most powerful Jedi in the mythos.
Crumpling armor that can repel Turbolasers, shredding armored Vulture droids with a wave of his hand, and tearing apart AT-ATS are more impressive than ashifying non force sensitives- and Vader has replicate that on a greater scale by reducing Lyleks to blood mist. So please try to reason how random soldiers compares to destroying Durasteel and high grade spaceship armors, HINT it doesn't and Vader has destroyed objects more powerful than fleshy guards. There isn't much of a basis for Meetra being capable of resisting it, considering Vader's telekinetic powers are per showings more powerful than Nyriss's lightning, Meetra's showing of barrier suck, Vader has affected force users more powerful than Meetra, and per feats and accolades is more powerful than Meetra (Jerec, Gethzerion, and hell even Lumiya are all better force users).
Originally posted by SunRazer
In fairness, her upper limit was also exposed when Nihilus and Sion turned on her.That said, I've taken the stance that Nihilus (at the time, at least) wasn't above her in the way that everybody else suggests. If he was, why would he need Sion's help to take her down? Sources indicate that the two collectively took away her powers, and Traya's attention was clearly divided when Nihilus threw her into the wall.
Agreed, though that also was not her prime.
Once again, using feats not relevant to an actual Force exchange. Darth Nihilus has telekinetically torns fleets of ships out of orbit and killed planets. Even a weakened and starved version of him is ****ing crazy powerful and the Exile still defeats him with her and Visas' combined might.
Unless you can make an actual argument and not just lowball three extremely powerful Jedi Masters with mastery of the highest mysteries of the Force. Then you can just stop wasting my time.
You're the one wasting time by saying Traya is in or remotely close to Vader by dominating force users that even 19 BBY Vader would obliterate. Claiming they're powerful force users when their feats are twirling their lightsabers/Prima sourcebook entries s hilarious backtracking and not proof of anything. The fact is she got shat on by Nyriss who doesn't even register to Vader's force showings , so yeah I accept your concession she gets oneshot 👆
Originally posted by Selenial
lmao.Three Council Members with solid Telekinesis feats were ragdolled by her. **** drain, drain isn't even relevant to her best feats.
Cut-content, non-canon. By this logic, we should take into account Cin Drallig deflecting Anakin's Force Push, before throwing him several meters back, or Mace ragdolling Skywalker, or Kenobi pushing Dooku, or beating Saesee Tiin while a padawan, or Maul choking Sidious, etc. If it's cut content, then I don't see it as being legitimate. And what "solid" TK feats? Pushing a wookie and collectively stunning the Exile?
Originally posted by Selenial
She has, however, killed a dozen Sith Assassins (who were Dark Jedi Masters in Revan's army, converted from the strongest military Jedi the galaxy has ever seen) without even a gesture.
We actually don't know if she needed a gesture or not because we didn't see her kill them. We saw them approach her, it faded to black, then cut back and see they're all dead and Traya's just sorta there. Doesn't mean she even killed them with TK, it could've been Drain for all we know.
Originally posted by Selenial
She's dominated every powerful force user she's ever met, bar Surik. That includes long-serving members of the council, the strongest Sith in Nihilus' entire empire, and Darth Sion.
So beings that don't even approach Jax Pavan, who Vader ragdolled more than two decades before his prime, or Starkiller who Vader exchanged telekinetic blows with before his prime, or Gethzeroin, Jerec and Kar Vastor whom Vader has canonically surpassed? Good to know.
Originally posted by Selenial
Even outside the sphere of Alter, she has some of the greatest Sense feats in the mythos, rivalling Darth Caedus and Yoda. On Malachor, she dodged the strikes of a Jedi Guardian capable of blitzing five martial arts masters, while restrained and trying to save their lives.
Good sense and speed feats. Don't see how that affects TK in any way, but still -- good speed and sense feats.
Originally posted by Selenial
Her upper limit has only ever been displayed by The Exile, so judging the Exile by calling Traya weak, and Traya by saying The Exile is featless is circular logic and nigh-retarded. Applying Nyriss as a measuring stick is also a fallacy, given Surik's loss of her greatest asset, and the fact Nyriss has only ever appeared in one source.
Why are you telling me this, I claimed neither, lol. I'm just saying that Vader's feats are indeed enough to suggest he can throw Surik around, not that it's because Nyriss did it or because Traya is weak and the Exile is featless or whatever.
Originally posted by AncientPower
You call that an argument? You just brain farted a post and pretended you achieved anything. The Jedi Masters are clearly very powerful, your lowballing changes nothing. Concession accepted. 👆
Agreed look at the sheer power of Vrook glowing
How the **** can Vader dominate such a being with that much power?!!?
Originally posted by SunRazer👆
Why do people keep saying it was the Council's collective might that stunned the Exile? It's clearly just Vrook who gestures.
Anyway, yeah, Kreia ragdolling the Jedi Masters all at once is no less canon than Maul doing the same to Sidious imo.
Originally posted by SunRazerBit of a double standard here don't you think? Only Nihilus is seen to gesture, Sion just looks on.
In fairness, her upper limit was also exposed when Nihilus and Sion turned on her.That said, I've taken the stance that Nihilus (at the time, at least) wasn't above her in the way that everybody else suggests. If he was, why would he need Sion's help to take her down? Sources indicate that the two collectively took away her powers, and Traya's attention was clearly divided when Nihilus threw her into the wall.
Originally posted by MythLord
Cut-content, non-canon. By this logic, we should take into account Cin Drallig deflecting Anakin's Force Push, before throwing him several meters back, or Mace ragdolling Skywalker, or Kenobi pushing Dooku, or beating Saesee Tiin while a padawan, or Maul choking Sidious, etc. If it's cut content, then I don't see it as being legitimate. And what "solid" TK feats? Pushing a wookie and collectively stunning the Exile?We actually don't know if she needed a gesture or not because we didn't see her kill them. We saw them approach her, it faded to black, then cut back and see they're all dead and Traya's just sorta there. Doesn't mean she even killed them with TK, it could've been Drain for all we know.
So beings that don't even approach Jax Pavan, who Vader ragdolled more than two decades before his prime, or Starkiller who Vader exchanged telekinetic blows with before his prime, or Gethzeroin, Jerec and Kar Vastor whom Vader has canonically surpassed? Good to know. .
Im going to tell you what I told you last time, play the actual game before engaging me in debate further, you'll just embarrass yourself.
It's not cut content that she dominates them. She knocks them all back several meters with a Force Wave, and when Vrook attempts to engage her she dominates him again.
Kavar has stunned dozens of soldiers with a single force wave, and yes, striking Hanharr with telekinesis so powerful as to knock him out is impressive, given the ridiculous strength and stamina he displays throughout the game.
We see the Assassins die, actually, on screen. She hasn't moved from when they first revealed themselves to her. The game files also mention her discarding them effortlessly, IIRC. It was most likely Dark Healing, though, a power she has shown herself incredibly proficient in.
Please, list anything Jax has done that you think places him above them. I'm waiting.
And again, Traya's upper limit of telekinesis has never been displayed. Her speed and sense feats are indicative of overall power levels, so are certainly credible methods of judging her overall force capabilities.
Originally posted by MythLord
We only see his hand from the frame, but it's implied to be all of them.
The frame would've let us see Zez-Kai Ell's hand if he used Stasis as well, but he didn't. And when the frame cuts back, only Vrook retracts his hand.
The only thing that was collective was the Council's Sever Force attempt.