Meetra Surik vs. Darth Vader

Originally posted by SunRazer
Muur Draining Krayt without an additional gesture. Palpatine leeching the life force off Byss without gesturing.

Also in the final product of KotOR II (ie. no cut content), Kreia kills the Jedi Council without gesturing. She just stands there and the orange energy beams go everywhere and they die.

Either way there is a visual indicator that something is going on.

Why would a gesture commence a non-gesture attack? Now you're doing mental gymnastics.

With her attention divided between him and Sion, yeah. And whether or not Nihilus and Sion gestured to Drain her has nothing to do with Nihilus TK'ing her.

The point you were trying to make is that Nihilus as of then isn't that far off Traya, yet he one shotted her with TK, divided attention or not that still suggests he is vastly more powerful than her, even vaster than if we assumed he was applying drain.

It also stretches the imagination that Nihilus could dispatch Traya with TK that easily, and that if the force of his push had been so great as to render her incapable of summoning her lightsaber, surely would have rent her unconscious instead. So in that respect yeah, it becomes much more reasonable to assume he was using Force drain.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Right, but here we can make a clear distinction between slowly siphoning the power of one or more individuals, and stripping someone of their powers entirely.

It doesn't matter, lol. You're putting way too much stock into this gesture thing.

Considering Traya is off panel when that happens not sure you worked that one out, it was probably sprouting from her hand, or from that demon roar thingy we see in the restored version.

We don't see her beginning to raise a hand or anything when the Drain commences, and when the Drain ends, we don't see her retracting her hand or anything of the sort. And she's on-panel, just down there in the corner.

But that's not the point is it?

Well, it's mine.

The point you were trying to make is that Nihilus as of then isn't that far off Traya, yet he one shotted her with TK, divided attention or not that still suggests he is vastly more powerful than her, even vaster than if we assumed he was applying drain.

What? If her attention's divided, then she can't defend herself properly, hence it doesn't show that there's a vast gap. Again, if he's vastly above her, why would he seek help from Sion?

And Sion applied Drain as well.

It also stretches the imagination that Nihilus could dispatch Traya with TK that easily, and that if the force of his push had been so great as to render her incapable of summoning her lightsaber, surely would have rent her unconscious. So in that respect yeah, it becomes much more reasonable to assume he was using Force drain.

You'll have to reword that, because I didn't get any of that.

I like how the off-topic discussion has more credibility than the 'Vader roflstomps all' camp.

Continue. 👆

Originally posted by Selenial
@Myth: before I reply, I want to check something. You say Traya is perhaps Dooku level, but not Vader. Do you think Vader could ragdoll someone on neutral ground, if Dooku couldn't ragdoll them after fighting through hundreds of Assassins, Storm Beasts, mental incapability while on a geyser of Dark Side energy? 🙂 🙂 🙂

The amount of lies, double standards, and cancer from AP in this thread have only ever been achieved by Legends, ngl.

Since when did I start liking Zoltan this much? 🙂 🙂 🙂

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
The amount of lies, double standards, and cancer from AP in this thread have only ever been achieved by Legends, ngl.

If all you have are blind accusations then you're not worthy of naming me, quite frankly.

If you have an actual argument regarding Force exchanges, that genuinely places Darth Vader within 'slaughter' range of the likes of Traya and Nyriss, and thus could ragdoll/stomp Meetra, without laughably lowballing all of the aforementioned Sith's feats.. well, be my guest.

Otherwise, your vitriol is irrelevant. Apparently it's cancer to consider Meetra as a genuine powerhouse of a Jedi, as every source bar ****ing Vrook Lamar makes clear. Apologies for daring to think Meetra can give him a good fight.

@Nova, don't think we are on the same page here, when I said "off-panel" I mean after the fact i.e. after it fades to black.

I assume you mean something else.

Originally posted by MythLord
Yes, I do have Vader anywhere from noticeably to considerably above Dooku-tier characters in the Force. Also, I said Traya is maybe that level 🙂 🙂 🙂

Then you have reached the epitome of an retardation 🙂

So just to clarify, one of the strongest Nexus' in the Galaxy aiding Dooku and hindering Vader, a mental block on Vader's rage so he struggles to call on the force as is, after Vader's forced to fight tens of dozens of Assassins who leach your force energy.... Wouldn't put them even close?

Because if they're even close, he won't ragdoll.

Ps: Your bias is hard to justify when applied to other eras, isn't it. This must be hard for you 🙂

Originally posted by Beniboybling
@Nova, don't think we are on the same page here, when I said "off-panel" I mean after the fact i.e. after it fades to black.

I assume you mean something else.

I'm talking about her Draining the Council, not the Sith Assassins on Malachor. You see her right there when she Drains the Council.

Originally posted by Selenial
Then you have reached the epitome of an retardation 🙂

So just to clarify, one of the strongest Nexus' in the Galaxy aiding Dooku and hindering Vader, a mental block on Vader's rage so he struggles to call on the force as is, after Vader's forced to fight tens of dozens of Assassins who leach your force energy.... Wouldn't put them even close?

Because if they're even close, he won't ragdoll.

Ps: Your bias is hard to justify when applied to other eras, isn't it. This must be hard for you 🙂

And I didn't say any of that. I have Vader substantially above Dooku/Traya level Force users, who I have above Surik as Force users, therefore Vader exercising telekinetic superiority over Surik is not hard to believe at all, especially when he's done it to beings much more powerful than the Exile.

Not sure how that's hard to understand, tbh.

EDIT: I was referring to Traya as she was on Malachor as being Dooku level, BTW.

Originally posted by Selenial
Then you have reached the epitome of an retardation 🙂

So just to clarify, one of the strongest Nexus' in the Galaxy aiding Dooku and hindering Vader, a mental block on Vader's rage so he struggles to call on the force as is, after Vader's forced to fight tens of dozens of Assassins who leach your force energy.... Wouldn't put them even close?

Because if they're even close, he won't ragdoll.

Ps: Your bias is hard to justify when applied to other eras, isn't it. This must be hard for you 🙂

Don't let up now, it's more like:

Fighting packs of Storm Beasts on the surface, where you're being subjected to the 'crushing grip' of a gravity well. Not to mention, whilst feeling mentally sick by the pervading agony of Jedi spirits, on a 'massive geyser of dark side energy', whilst having to use constant breath control to traverse the poisonous vents among the jagged hostile rocky terrain.

Then finally finding shelter in the Trayus academy, which has an entire legion of elite Sith, including bladeborn, Sith masters and Sith lords. All of whom were partly responsible for the slaughter of tens of thousands of Jedi. The further in you get, the more potent the effects of the Trayus core become.

Oh and then of course we have Darth Sion, the most feared lightsaber assassin in the Triumvirate who is a veteran Sith marauder with decades of Jedi killing experience since the Exar Kun war.

Then you fight Traya.

^^

👆

Basically read my blog on it, Wolf. 🙂

Originally posted by SunRazer
I'm talking about her Draining the Council, not the Sith Assassins on Malachor. You see her right there when she Drains the Council.

Yes, you do. She's in the corner. You get to see her a fraction of a second before she Drains and after, and she doesn't raise/retract a hand in either.

Originally posted by AncientPower
If you have an actual argument regarding Force exchanges, that genuinely places Darth Vader within 'slaughter' range of the likes of Traya and Nyriss, and thus could ragdoll/stomp Meetra, without laughably lowballing all of the aforementioned Sith's feats.. well, be my guest.

Hmm not sure where to start...your double standards or your lies?

Let's start with the lies.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Starkiller has had his defenses pressed by fugging Shadow Guards and Felucians ffs.

Hmmm, let's see the truth instead, not AP's blatant lies:

The bone swords were resistant to his lightsaber, but his skill with the Force far exceeded theirs. Dodging their clumsy telekinesis and unwieldy blows, he dispatched them calmly and without fuss, saving his energy for the real enemy waiting for him.
—The Force Unleashed

A bolt of Sith lightning shot from the hand not holding the staff. The apprentice grinned, having anticipated that tactic. He met the lightning bolt with one of his own. They collided in a spitling, tackling ball of pure energy that danced crazily from side to side. The air filled with the sharp stink of ozone.

The hooded assassin grunted and applied more effort. The apprentice met that effort and exceeded it. The ease with which he drove his assailant's lightning back surprised him. For one wielding a Sith blade, the man he was fighting had less power than he should have.

The ball of energy where their crackling bolts met drifted closer and closer to the black guard. He grunted audibly and leaned physically forward with both hands upraised, one in a shaking claw and the other stabbing the saber-staff into the beam, adding its energy to his desperate attack. To no avail. The ball inexorably approached, driven by the dark power of the apprentice's will. When it touched the hilt of the black guard's saber-staff, all its pent-up energy was drawn into him.

With a truncated shriek the guard flew out the open dock and Buttered away, dead before his feet even left the ground.
—The Force Unleashed

Good try tho.

Time for some double standards now:

Originally posted by AncientPower
You know you could just claim he superman lazored the thing at this rate, given how badly you're misrepresenting that feat.

How about a taste of your own fallacy? Seems appropriate:

So the great unmatched Force lightning of Galen Marek... can be blocked by Shaak Ti. I'm sure Nyriss is shaking in her boots, given she is powerful enough to incinerate a very powerful Sith Lord in Lord Scourge, who tanked Darth Xedrix's lightning and then cut Xedrix down, and a hindered Meetra Surik who has tanked Force lightning Storms from Darth Traya and Atris.

So it doesn't matter what Galen did to non-force users and objects with the force as long as Shaak Ti can block his lightning it makes Galen shit tier instead of Shaak good?
Noted....Oh wait.
But on the other hand blocking Xedrix's, Traya's and Atris' lightning is God tier, because their lightning could do what exactly?

Originally posted by AncientPower
Atris is stated to be no match for the Jedi Exile's lightsaber prowess, indicating that her potent Force drain, telekinesis and Force lightning storm powers aren't enough to defeat Meetra:

NOTE: Atris doesn't even gesture when she opens, closes and seals those massive (presumably) durasteel doors with telekinesis. A nice comparison could be made here:

Kek so if Galen pulverizes a 150m frigate and Vader ragdolls him it doesn't matter, beacuse the frigate is not a force user, but if Atris can close a ****ing door and she can't ragdoll Meetra then it means Vader can't either???

I don't even have an appropriate gif for such level of retardation.

Anyhow I got bored by now, so I'm gona stop and save you from further humiliation by going through your other lies and double standrads. Someone who actually cares to debate can go through them if they wish...

Originally posted by Selenial
^^

👆

Basically read my blog on it, Wolf. 🙂

Whatever you say, Lady Sel. As long as you wank Shaak, I'll say Meetra beats Vader.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Yes, you do. She's in the corner. You get to see her a fraction of a second before she Drains and after, and she doesn't raise/retract a hand in either.

Anyway that's not the ****ing point. 🙂 I'm asking you what you mean by "off-screen" when referring to Traya's incident with Sion and Nihilus, because I meant after Sion beats the crap out of her and fades to black, I get the impression you mean when Sion and Nihilus weren't visible, or something.

Originally posted by MythLord
Whatever you say, Lady Sel. As long as you wank Shaak, I'll say Meetra beats Vader.

top class strawman

Originally posted by Selenial
top class strawman

The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position.

How is me jokingly saying "I'll say Surik > Vader, if I need to, since I respect your Shaak wank" an example of the above, Lady Sel?