http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=529811&pagenumber=5
Around the middle. 2013.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=529811&pagenumber=5
Around the middle. 2013.
Originally posted by SunRazer
The gap between Muur and Vader had to be have been noticeable for him to be fantasizing over Muur's power to that extent. He even considered Muur potentially being another master to him, which means that Muur would've had to be above him by quite a noticeable degree. Even if Vader grew vastly, I doubt he would've surpassed Ragnos, who was more powerful than Pall, who in turn, was more powerful than Muur. And Kun's more powerful than Ragnos, so do the math.[B]
So you take his spirit feats? That should be good enough, tbh. Though his Force Blast feats aren't that unbelievable at all. Assuming he has his trinkets here, which the OP says he doesn't but we can discuss a bonus round where he has them.
Considering how dramatically Anakin grew from AotC or even TCW to RotS, it isn't that difficult to imagine that Vader grew dramatically as well - we know he did from ANH to ESB.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Vader's growth was stunted after Mustafar. And I already accounted for the best possible outcome for Vader, which is a vast growth in power. It may well have been dramatic but not all that vast.
Based on what? RotS suited Vader only has a fraction of the telekinetic power of his former self, most people say TFU Vader is already above Anakin in that regard.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Based on what? RotS suited Vader only has a fraction of the telekinetic power of his former self, most people say TFU Vader is already above Anakin in that regard.
Based on most of his Midi-chlorians being burned, that's what.
And based on what is RotS-suit Vader only a fraction of his former self in telekinesis? Lords of the Sith takes place in the same year and he's imploding Lyleks by then. I'm pretty sure his infamous cathedral collapse etc. all occurred in 19BBY as well.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Based on most of his Midi-chlorians being burned, that's what.And based on what is RotS-suit Vader only a fraction of his former self in telekinesis? Lords of the Sith takes place in the same year and he's imploding Lyleks by then. I'm pretty sure his infamous cathedral collapse etc. all occurred in 19BBY as well.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Based on most of his Midi-chlorians being burned, that's what.And based on what is RotS-suit Vader only a fraction of his former self in telekinesis? Lords of the Sith takes place in the same year and he's imploding Lyleks by then. I'm pretty sure his infamous cathedral collapse etc. all occurred in 19BBY as well.
The Rots novelization: in the "noooo" scene Vader reaches out and tries to kill Sidious, but he's gotten too weak and lost too much power and cannot touch "the shadow".
Originally posted by The Ellimist
The Rots novelization: in the "noooo" scene Vader reaches out and tries to kill Sidious, but he's gotten too weak and lost too much power and cannot touch "the shadow".
I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have been able to touch Sidious as Anakin anyway. And the "painter gone blind" etc. analogies are in reference to raw power, not mastered power.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It's midichlorian per cell, not midichlorian over all. Otherwise, Yoda wouldn't one of, if not the, most powerful Jedi of all time, and all giant beasts would be telepaths.
It's confirmed that Anakin's loss of overall Midi-chlorians canonically weakened his potential, lol.
Also, what stops Yoda from having such an exorbitant amount of Midi-chlorians per cell that almost every Force user with more cells still can't match him? Anakin being an exception, of course.
Originally posted by SunRazer
I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have been able to touch Sidious as Anakin anyway.
While that enraged? I'm not sure. A bloodlusted Maul was able to make Sidious sweat.
And the "painter gone blind" etc. analogies are in reference to raw power, not mastered power.
Yet it's specifically in the context of Vader's ability to injure Palpatine.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
While that enraged? I'm not sure. A bloodlusted Maul was able to make Sidious sweat.
Sidious absolutely ragdolled bloodlusted Maul, lol.
Yet it's specifically in the context of Vader's ability to injure Palpatine.
Yes, because when you're enraged, you tend to be able to tap into more of that raw, unmastered power. What Vader unleashed was hardly controlled, it was just raw anger in the form of telekinesis.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Sidious absolutely ragdolled bloodlusted Maul, lol.
After breaking his guard; Maul was matching him pretty well until then.
I can totally buy an enraged Anakin crushing Sidious like a toy.
Yes, because when you're enraged, you tend to be able to tap into more of that raw, unmastered power. What Vader unleashed was hardly controlled, it was just raw anger in the form of telekinesis.
So you're suggesting that Vader's "base" power is greater than Anakin's even shortly after RotS, but his rage boost wouldn't do as much because he's lost much of his potential? mmm
I don't think this fits the authorial intent of the particular passage, and there are quite a few sources depicting how Vader is a shadow of his former self in actual ability.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
After breaking his guard; Maul was matching him pretty well until then.
Only in a contest of physical strength, which Maul has the innate physical edge of anyway.
I can totally buy an enraged Anakin crushing Sidious like a toy.
Maybe.
So you're suggesting that Vader's "base" power is greater than Anakin's even shortly after RotS, but his rage boost wouldn't do as much because he's lost much of his potential?
What? I said Vader's mastered power is more or less the same, but his raw power is much less.
I don't think this fits the authorial intent of the particular passage, and there are quite a few sources depicting how Vader is a shadow of his former self in actual ability.
What are these "quite a few" sources? The only ones I'm aware of refer to lightsaber ability/raw power.
Originally posted by SunRazer
It's confirmed that Anakin's loss of overall Midi-chlorians canonically weakened his potential, lol.Also, what stops Yoda from having such an exorbitant amount of Midi-chlorians per cell that almost every Force user with more cells still can't match him? Anakin being an exception, of course.
Because it's obviously less than Anakin's, which is pointed out in the retarded movie that introduced this retarded concept, and he's several times larger Yoda, but according to the quote you took out of context, would not be several times more powerful.
1. I wasn't thinking of that, but that works as well.
Just use your logic, lol. Anakin lost a lot of his overall Midi-chlorians, and his potential dipped. Not hard to reason why. Likewise, Lumiya got stuffed when she had 90% prosthetics. She mentions her potential getting wrecked, IIRC.
2. I mentioned Anakin was an exception, lol. He could still have more midi-chlorians per cell than Yoda in addition to more cells in his body. As for several times more powerful - possibly. He could've been 2x Sidious, who by RotS alone was more powerful than Yoda. DE Sidious could be quite a bit more powerful than Yoda, tbh, and Anakin was 2x that.
Yeah, that's not logical. Yoda is comparable to Sidious, especially any Sidious that Lucas actually cared about. Anakin has more midichlorians per cell than Yoda, and far more cells than Yoda. If the number of cells, instead of midichlorians per cell, actually mattered, Anakin wouldn't only be a little over twice as powerful as Yoda. Cells between organisms are also relatively the same size, so that argument wouldn't work either. But then again, you probably didn't want me to use logic. You just wanted me to agree with you.
Yoda and Sidious weren't miles apart in RotS by any means, and there's no reason to believe Sidious would be more powerful than Yoda embracing the Dark Side when Dooku flat out told us Yoda would be more powerful. Anakin was not "2x more powerful" than a DE Sidious. Lucas never even entertained the idea of DE. Pretty sure, in the same place where you got that quote, or relatively comparable to it, Lucas goes on about how Luke never married, and Palpatine was never cloned, you know him being cloned the entire plot of DE. He never took that shit seriously, and you can't cherry-pick his quotes just to advance your argument.