Darth Vader vs. Exar Kun

Started by Beniboybling52 pages

That's entirely dependent on Horn being aware of how powerful Luke truly is, and being infallible in general, so naw.

Pathetic, this is an audiobook narrated on the perspective of Horn himself, the narrative has to be an accurate depiction of events in the novel. Furthermore it is supported by the power statements of three other sources, when you aren't lowballing Kun as much as humanly possible.

The denial game here is as strong as it was in the Hitler bunker.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Not even remotely, he was more powerful than Horn had imagined existing, making him more powerful than Luke.

No, Corran thought that was a logical deduction from Exar's Force concealment, but it clearly isn't, because then you could conclude that Ben Skywalker > Darth Caedus because he was able to hide his presence in the Force.

So what's the point of talking about Spirit Kun? He's in his body form right? This isn't taking place in the Yavin Temple, which was a darkside nexus right?

I agree that live Exar > spirit Exar even on the nexus, but his defeat of Luke isn't something he can necessarily replicate against Vader. In the flesh and without the element of surprise/surrounding, Exar won't be able to blindside Vader, who is familiar with sorcery.

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Well, Nox was familiar with Sorcery, but she still got curbed by Thanaton. If you're not familiar with the spell itself, then you're in trouble.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Pathetic, this is an audiobook narrated on the perspective of Horn himself, the narrative has to be an accurate depiction of events in the novel. Furthermore it is supported by the power statements of three other sources, when you aren't lowballing Kun as much as humanly possible.

The denial game here is as strong as it was in the Hitler bunker.

What? That doesn't address my point in the slightest, try again.

And it's supported by your personal interpretation of Luke's encounters with Kyp!Kun, I'm aware.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
No, Corran thought that was a logical deduction from Exar's Force concealment, but it clearly isn't, because then you could conclude that Ben Skywalker > Darth Caedus because he was able to hide his presence in the Force.
Yeah again Horn is not an infallible source.

Tbh I always felt Sorcery shouldn't have been anything combat related, that's what the Force was for. Sorcery should have been more along the lines of like, experimenting and creating things like artifacts and the like, non combat related, to make it different than the Force.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
No, Corran thought that was a logical deduction from Exar's Force concealment, but it clearly isn't, because then you could conclude that Ben Skywalker > Darth Caedus because he was able to hide his presence in the Force.

That isn't what happened, Exar Kun knocked him out and masked the attack itself from the senses of every Jedi in the hall, including Master Luke, just fifteen meters away. Kun is stated to have merely toyed with Horn during this attack.

This in Horn's estimation ultimately makes Exar Kun more powerful than Master Luke, and he even goes on to suggest that he was capable of being much more powerful than that after summoning the Suncrusher and killing Luke.

To be fair, there have been a few times where the NJO Jedi admit that they have no idea what Luke is actually capable of.

Which doesn't preclude their knowledge of what he has done before, which is all that is relevant to my point.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Khem Val's statement > supposed holding back from Vader.

Lmao.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Which doesn't preclude their knowledge of what he has done before, which is all that is relevant to my point.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Or that he's much more powerful than Master Luke, who goes on to be capable of ripping hulls off of star destroyers in Specters of the Past.
Oh dear.

But enlighten me, what impressive showings has Luke accomplished that Horn has borne witness too?

You're not getting it, as always.

Luke is already confirmed to be more powerful than his father as of Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor, what he does in Specters of the Past is only supportive of the argument.

So your grand counter argument is that Corran, a lifelong CorSec officer, with extensive training in analysing other people and who has the Force sense capabilities to actively measure every other student in the praxeum, doesn't kniw what he's talking about? This is essentially an appeal to fallibility?

What's really being brought into question is how powerful Horn thinks Luke is? Because honestly that's really weak, like surprisingly weak.

Per Blackhole, a subjective source, LMAO. I can just as easily claim Vader is > Yoda because Pavan said so.

Luke himself admitted Vader was his superior in TCoPL. And his feats of struggling to hold up fallen a AT-ST and, years later, failing to even budge one lodged in a wall certainly backs this up. Plus, you can't use stuff that happened years after Jedi Academy trilogy to back up your opinion, either.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Well, Nox was familiar with Sorcery, but she still got curbed by Thanaton. If you're not familiar with the spell itself, then you're in trouble.

She only got curbed while a neophyte who had, what, two spirits inside her and little knowledge on the rituals Tenel was performing.

Hardly a fair example to someone who's knowledge of the Dark Side made him "devastating" and has mastered obscure, demons-with-drain summoning techniques, alchemy to shift living beings into Rakghouls and had a Sith amulet inside his own armour.

Originally posted by AncientPower
You're not getting it, as always.

Luke is already confirmed to be more powerful than his father as of Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor, what he does in Specters of the Past is only supportive of the argument.

So your grand counter argument is that Corran, a lifelong CorSec officer, with extensive training in analysing other people and who has the Force sense capabilities to actively measure every other student in the praxeum, doesn't kniw what he's talking about? This is essentially an appeal to fallibility?

What's really being brought into question is how powerful Horn thinks Luke is? Because honestly that's really weak, like surprisingly weak.

Oh I'm sorry, I forgot that being a member of CorSec makes Horn an expert on Luke Skywaker. 😂

I ask you again, what impressive feats of Luke has Horn borne witness too?

And yes darling, I am pointing out that Horn is fallible, well done. Especially within the contexts of, as NewGuy also pointed out, few being aware of what Luke was truly capable of, because he rarely displayed his true power. So far it seems to have left you floundering.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Pathetic, this is an audiobook narrated on the perspective of Horn himself, the narrative has to be an accurate depiction of events in the novel.

This is ridiculous. It's a first person narrator, and first person narrators being unreliable is literally one of the primary reasons to write any story in first person.

Not sure if you've read/listened to the whole thing, but Corran Horn routinely f*cks up and makes mistakes throughout the entire book, as do all of the apprentices. It's actually a major point of the story.

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