Originally posted by carthage
Exar can't even hurt force sensitives with his senate feat but his sorcery can somehow hurt Vader. Great logic.
READ THE SCENE WHERE HE DOES THIS.
I already pointed it out before, stop spewing out craploads of misinformation.
He manages to cast a spell where he paralyzes some of the Jedi Orders finest knights and masters such as Nomi Sunrider, Cay El-Droma etc.
Additonally, has Vader shown any resistance to sorcery before?
You completely ignore Kun's socery feats while hyping up Vader's TK.
Such hypocrisy
Originally posted by SunRazer
[B]Muur's also "well above" Vector Vader. And Kun's above Muur.
Honestly not as impressive given Vader grew in power more so than when he was compared to Muur, and him being above Jerec, Vastor, Mace, Gethzerion, Dooku, Maul (Palpatine calling him unparalleled in Tarkin) given all of their showings is more realistic of a measuring stick than Kun being more powerful than a being Vader surpassed in ROTJ.
Sources support that. So...
Ok. Too bad the feats don't. He overpowers Luke but can't do more than stalemate Ulic, gets beaten down by no name Jedi, and gets put down by a far weaker force user in Odan Urr. Vader would honestly do more with his TK
You play the nexus argument a bit too much. Kun grew exorbitantly in power after his nexus showings, which compensates. Haven't brought up any ritual feats.
Based on what? None of his living feats surpass beating Luke, so I call bullshit on that showin
His best Sorcery feat is wrecking Luke without reaching his full power. And Kun seemed to be deflecting Aleema's blast back at her, but take it however you will.
Which wouldn't be enough to even breach Vader's passive force defenses
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Scan? 'Cause I don't recall anything indicating that it was Force Light/Sever that shoved Kun silly, KEK.
Deronn_Solo can't read. #confirmed
The text literally states he attacks Kun using the same power he had just taught Nomi Sunrider, which, guess what genius, was Sever Force.
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Gewd for Exar. Starkiller has taken out a horde of powerful Force sensitive with a telekinetic surge ---- Vader was an equal to 'Killer, before becoming "far more formidable" in ESB, and further reaching the pinnacle of his power in RotJ. So yeah, Kun's TK isn't shit next to Vader's. 👆
Kun has, as a weakened spirit with no source of energy, choked out Streen, Brakiss, Kam Solusar, Cilghal, Tionne Solusar, Kirana Ti and the infant Solo twins simultaneously. He was only stopped and finally defeated by their meld with the Spirits of Luke Skywalker and Vodo Siosk-Baas, which in a weaker version containing only Luke, Leia and fetal Anakin cut Sidious off from the Force and afterwards telekinetically launched twelve Star Destroyers half-way across the Yavin system.
That defecates on anything Vader did with telekinesis against Starkiller.
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
So, he needs concentration to take out a scrub like Keto? Heck, Exar didn't even do any real damage to her whatsoever. Fact of the matter is, Exar had no reason to keep Aleema alive, and his intent was to kill both her and Ulic, yet his Force blast only momentarily dazed her.
She is a scrub, which is why she can casually husk people with sorcery far before her own prime and is called very powerful by Nomi Sunrider. All Exar Kun did was no-sell Keto and one-shotted her. Right before experiencing two great increases in power in the following years.
Your lowballing is pitiful.
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
You keep throwing this "before his prime" malarkey around as if it's supposed to prove something, it doesn't. Given Kun has no feats, or statements whatsoever that proves he can replicate those Force blast showings without being amped to a significant degree, than I'm not buying it.
Because Exar Kun was a noob to Sith power when he did that and replaced Freedon Nadd as a 'great power' in the galaxy.
"I sense something, as if a great power[Freedon Nadd] has fallen and another[Exar Kun] has risen to take its place."
- Vodo Siosk-Baas, Tales of the Jedi Audio Drama
Then he immediately got more powerful by dabbling in Sith magic:
Exar Kun’s power grew. He ordered the Massassi to build immense temples and to seek out Naga Sadow’s lost battleship.
- Star Wars: The Old Republic - Galactic History 55 - Ascension of Exar Kun
Then much later, after stalemating Ulic Qel-Droma and killing Odan-Urr, he becomes even more powerful by using the Dark Holocron:
Odan-Urr goes to the Force and the darkest power in the galaxy walks away with something that will make him even stronger.
- Tales of the Jedi_Omnibus: Volume 2
Locked within it's recesses, accessible only to a Dark Lord of the Sith, are the forgotten histories and lore, dating back a hundred thousand years and more.
- Odan-Urr, Tales of the Jedi Omnibus: Volume 2
Odan-Urr kept this Sith Holocron for nearly a millennium before it was stolen by the Jedi Exar Kun, who used it to learn many secrets of the Sith.
- Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force
Exar Kun might not have risen to power so quickly had Odan-Urr destroyed the Sith Holocron when he’d had the chance.
- Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force
Then Exar Kun grew even more powerful when he mastered Sith sorcery:
An extremely powerful figure now, Kun dabbled in dark side alchemy, creating freakish two-headed avians and hulking terentateks that thirsted after Force-rich blood. He invented a glowing golden sphere that trapped the children of the Massassi and allowed him to feed off their energies.
- The New Essential Chronology
By this point, Exar Kun was far too powerful for a single Jedi to match, including Vodo-Siosk Baas, the second most powerful Jedi in the galaxy:
She discovers the accounts of the Great Sith War, and learns that though Kun was far more powerful than any one other Jedi of the time, a combined force had defeated him.
- The Jedi Academy Sourcebook
The two fought, and Vodo-Siosk Baas was no match for Exar Kun’s double-bladed lightsaber and deep reserve of dark side power. Vodo-Siosk perished, slain by his former apprentice.
- Power of the Jedi Sourcebook
The idea that Exar Kun with an amplification, one that he is never even stated to have in the first place, is going to in any way, shape or form make up for an actual bonified vast increase in personal power is just cancer.
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Of course, I'm very liberal in my views so if you can form a case for why this "before prime" jazz means a something of substance, besides an arbitrary throw-away words, I'd gladly change my views in a heart beat, dear.
See above.
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Good for Exar; it's worth noting that Luke never attempted to fight back
Luke dropped his useless lightsaber and crouched. His every muscle suddenly coiled and tensed. He rallied all the powers of the Force around him, seeking any defensive tactic.Luke called upon the powers that Yoda and Obi-Wan had taught him—but everything he did, every skillful technique, failed utterly.
- Jedi Academy Trilogy: Dark Apprentice
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
and that, as far as I know, Luke had like zero experience with sorcery at the time. You know, it's kinda hard to counter something when you're completely ignorant on the subject, therefore how to combat it.
Lord Shadowspawn? Gethzerion?
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Luckily, Vader has studied sorcery to a significant degree himself, and even knew how to conjure beast of pure DS power that are invulnerable to blaster bolts, and completely drain Force sensitive of their life force.
So Vader is about Darth Bane tier then in sorcery knowledge, sweet. Wonder what happened to Bane...
The tip of the tentacle still brushed against his left shoulder. The material of his clothes melted away as if it had been splashed with acid. A chunk of flesh beneath simply dissolved, and Bane screamed in agony. Once, orbalisks had fused themselves to his body with a burning chemical compound so intense it had nearly driven him mad. Ten years ago they had been removed when Bane's flesh had been literally cooked by a concentrated blast of his own violet lightning. During her interrogation, Serra had pumped him full of a drug that had felt like it was eating him alive from the inside. But the excruciating pain he felt from the mere touch of the dark side tendril was unlike anything Bane had ever experienced before.
-
It wrapped itself around the elbow. Skin, muscle, sinew and bone dissolved instantaneously, severing the limb. His disembodied forearm and fist tumbled harmlessly to the ground, his lightsaber flicking off as the hilt slid from his suddenly nerveless fingers. The Dark Lord didn't scream this time; the pain was so intense it left him mute as he collapsed to the ground.
- Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Except, Luke has zero feats/accolades that place him above Vader at that time, LMAO. In fact, Palpatine makes it clear on DE that with further training, Luke COULD surpass Vader, implying he wasn't there yet. Now, of course you CAN make a case that Luke was > Vader --- but it's far from clear cut as you guys seem to make it to be.
In Return of the Jedi, Luke Skywalker was an equal of Darth Vader:
For the first time, the thought entered Vader’s consciousness that his son might best him. He was astounded by the strength Luke had acquired since their last duel, in the Cloud City—not to mention the boy’s timing, which was honed to a thought’s-breadth._This was an unexpected circumstance. Unexpected and unwelcome. Vader felt humiliation crawling in on the tail of his first reaction, which was surprise, and his second, which was fear. And then the edge of the humiliation curled up, to reveal bald anger. And now he wanted revenge.
- Return of the Jedi Novelisation
The fight this time was far more balanced. Vader discovered that Luke was his match, and, once again, the Sith Lord found his thoughts straying to an alliance between them against the Emperor.Luke had indeed grown powerful since Bespin, and he was an equal match for his father.
- The Official Star Wars Fact File #111
By Shadows of Mindor, Luke had grown more powerful than Vader and potentially even Emperor Palpatine:
A body more powerful in the Force than Vader, potentially more powerful even than Palpatine.
- Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor
You were saying?
Originally posted by SunRazer
[B]Kun's most recent appearance was in I, Jedi, as a spirit, not as a living being in TotJ. Hard to dismiss that.Regarding Kun's inability to return to full power being "unquantifiable nonsense" - so if you don't agree with it, it's unquantifiable? It doesn't have to be quantified, anyway. We just know that Kyp and so on couldn't return him to full power - in other words, he was still weakened. Not hard to understand.
His full power wasn't exactly bringing to bear feats that place him above Vader. So yeah I can question it or else he would've destroyed the force sensitives in the senate, and actually succeeded in outright killing Ood Bnar, and had done more than being put into a ghost state for thousands of years. His living feats can be seen by anyone in TOTJ, and honestly they're nothing to suggest they'd help him in combat
Anyway, I'm sure you've heard that "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"? Just because Kun hasn't shown amazing feats in telekinesis doesn't mean he isn't proficient in it. Vader hasn't shown a defense to Kun's tendril attack in the JA trilogy, so by your logic, he gets one-shotted? And no, Barrier doesn't count, since DE Luke could use Barrier but it wasn't a serviceable defense for him there.
Zannah wasn't able to summon tendrils without aid of the Ambrian nexus, and Kun's tendrils didn't do any damage to anyone. There is no evidence he can use them without similar factors to Zannah's use, and again his blasts can be deflected or at least won't harm Vader because Aleema is vastly inferior. Kun got put down by Odan Urr who is dwarfed by Vader in every capacity, Vader would honestly ragdoll him per feats if he was in a similar situation
As for his showing in TOR, again more ghost feats that don't match what hes capable for in life.
Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Objective, out-of-universe, third-person statements > feats.2. How is his feat where he destroys Luke "unable to breach Vader's passive Force defenses"? Ahsoka's Force Push breached it, lmao.
Because on Yavin he magically can blow up Sith wyrms, and on Onderon he couldn't even harm someone who is inferior to Vader in all aspects, lol. Vader doesn't even need barrier to deflect it, its such a weak attack his armor can probably no sell it
2. Feats from the comics>>> Out of Universe statements with no basis on what he portrayed in life. He's not exactly stomping Luke tier force users in TOTJ, quite the opposite actually lol
He was dueling Ulic to prove a point, and he was utterly pre-prime.
Against Ood Bnar he was legit trolling him, Bnar hinself admits he is no warrior and stands no chance.
In the Galactic Senate, Kun froze countless senators with his powers and maintained it when he stomped Vodo.
He trashed everybody he came across, and the actual sources cement him as easily the most powerful Sith and Jedi in the mythos up to his point, bar Vitiate.
You've got nothing Carthage, absolutely nothing.
Originally posted by AncientPower
He was dueling Ulic to prove a point, and he was utterly pre-prime.Against Ood Bnar he was legit trolling him, Bnar hinself admits he is no warrior and stands no chance.
In the Galactic Senate, Kun froze countless senators with his powers and maintained it when he stomped Vodo.
He trashed everybody he came across, and the actual sources cement him as easily the most powerful Sith and Jedi in the mythos up to his point, bar Vitiate.
You've got nothing Carthage, absolutely nothing.
He would've finished Ood But couldn't destroy him in his tree form, and let him live till thousands of years later. Totes evidence of a stomp 👆
Kun's senate feat has no bearing of what he's capable of in combat, he couldn't even affect non force sensitives. So please show me how he's going to harm Vader with pitiful showings like that.
Its a good thing Vader is more powerful than anyone he's ever fought per accolades and showings 👆. Guess he has nothing to worry about in that regard when he's greater than force users like Gethzerion, Maul, and Dooku. >>>>>>> Vodo, Ulic, and random mook Jedi from his era
You're the one who has jack shit