Nephthys
The Gr8est!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by Beniboybling
No I don't, combatively speaking Bane has nothing else, which is what's relevant to this discussion. Nor does quantity translate into quality, otherwise Maul wins by default since he's mastered at least twice as many forms as Bane.And seeing as the Darksaber is a kind of lightsaber, I would assume so.
Jesus, this really isn't the hill you want to be dying on here Beni. Just concede and eat some crow. So combatively Bane has nothing more except for far more than Maul does? Gosh yeah, you sure kicked my ass there. And no, whats relevant this this discussion is how skilled Bane is. The fact that he is highly skilled in many advanced combat techniques is proof of how skilled he is. You seem to keep missing this point, so I'm just going to repeat it until you figure it out. I have confidence you'll get there some day. And just because Bane's main techniques are TK and lightning doesn't make him less skilled or anything. That's what most Sith's main offensive abilities are (y'know, except for Maul lol), like Sidious, Plagueis, Malgus etc. But if you want quality then we can look at how Bane is capable of disintegrating opponents, an advanced level of TK ability beyond Maul's grasp. but no maul can push poeple and choke them obviuusly hes the beeeest
Also I'm pretty sure Bane's mastered at least as many forms as Maul has.
It's not a standard blade and its thin as shit. IDK, you'd be hard pressed to block lightning with that.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Nope it's all there.Anyway you're attempt at strawmanning aside, though his skills evidently played a role in allowing him to channel his power effectively, it was power and power alone to which Bane's victory is attributed to. The fact that instead of trying to think through Kas'im's moves he surrendered his autonomy to the dark side and let it fight for him, speaking volumes as to how first and foremost, yes, Bane was beating Kas'im into submission with a proverbial Force club:
So assuming he can come close to replicating this against Maul entirely without a massive Force advantage is to employ terribly flawed reasoning.
As for Bane being "hugely advanced in skill", not so when in his own opinion his saber talent was "no match" for Kas'im, who he concedes to be the better duelist:
Oh I assumed you had a more complete argument than that or something.
Lol, you can't accuse me of strawmanning and then make the very same argument. Bane had the edge due to his power, yeah. But when it came down to a contest between Bane and a master of all lightsaber forms to their highest degree, the fact that the only significant factor was power is itself a testament to Bane's skill. There was no flaw in Bane's abilities that Kas'im could exploit to gain the upper hand and Bane's absolute knowledge of dueling allowed him to nullify every move Kas'im could possibly attempt.
And wtf, every Jedi and Sith tries to become an extension of the Force. That's like the highest level of combat as Kas'im makes clear in the very book.
"The goal was to become an extension of the dark side itself."
"Your saber has become an extension of the dark side."
Also it's clear in the book that duelists don't actually turn their brains off, the whole point is in knowing the techniques well enough that every possibility is instinctively known and you perform the moves without effort. Otherwise Kas'im trick wouldn't work, Bane wouldn't need to think of the dual blades possibilities.
Oh my jesus christ. facepalm2 I gave you the benefit of the doubt because of Temp's thread but I think at this point it's really looking like you are just trying troll me. Bane said that after Kas'im pulled out the second saber. He was no match for Kas'im in that state. It isn't relevant here.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Wrong again I'm afraid, as I said a Force bubble is not a particularly special or rare application of the Force. But if you want to assume Bane is one of the most skilled Sith in history because he can wield Force lightning and use flashy techniques against fodder opponents then that's your business. But considering how limited he is in applicable Force techniques here I couldn't care less. Whereas on the other hand none of that proves Bane is a match for Maul in martial skill, and he can match Bane's TK and block his lightning just fine.
Lol, dude I'm just having some fun here. Lets not pretend I'm taking the idea that Bane isn't one of the most skilled Sith in history with the the slightest bit of seriousness. Anyway.
I mean, you saying it isn't rare sure is compelling. But I'm pretty sure you're wrong. Like I said, barrier and shield are the basic abilities and bubble is the more advanced version. Sorry not sorry to tell you. He's still less limited than Maul is tho.
Maul has never blocked lightning ever. I guess that's something else Bane has on him.....
Originally posted by Beniboybling
No friend, you actually need to complete your line of reasoning to prove your point.But very well, I'll help you out by getting ball rolling; as I explained to Ascendancy he mastered Niman, Ataru, Jar'Kai, Juyo and likely more besides (considering the impenetrable defense he offered against Jinn and Kenobi, I'd say Soresu), to level of perfection that placed him among the most skilled Sith in history, in the space of seven years, five of which he spent at the Osiris Academy in which he had only intermittent contact with his master, where it would have taken a Jedi at least a decade to master Niman alone, and logically several decades more to master the other forms. And not only that ended up utterly outclassing those, like Jinn, who had.
In comparison in one year of dedicated training, PoD Bane got really good, but remained "no match" in skill to one of the aforementioned (or at least supposedly) greatest duelists in mythos. Now here's the part where you explain to me how despite that Bane's growth rate is significantly better than Maul's, or better at all.
No, I don't. I've posted evidence for Bane's learning rate, now you need to post proof that Maul's is in any way comparable. That's how debates work, I post something, you post something and we squabble over which is better. Can't believe I actually have to tell you this tbh. Kind of awkward.
Niman and Jar'Kai are kind of the same thing but whatevs. And no, being able to defend doesn't mean you're using Soresu. 🙄 Being among the most skilled is an entirely worthless accolade so it doesn't mean anything in comparison to Bane. Bane was wrecking a guy who'd mastered every aspect of the saber, acting as if he isn't among the most skilled is absolutely laughable.
You're forgetting that Bane had decades after PoD to grow in. He was gathering all the necessary information for his Order. I doubt he didn't gather knowledge of all lightsaber forms, even assuming he lacked mastery in all of them already. In a few years his skills would utterly eclipse Maul's to a laughable degree.
But anyway, Ascendancy seems to have this so no need to continue with this.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
It may surprise you friend but Kenobi's primary form is actually Soresu. Whereas yes, he became uncharacteristically aggressive according to the novelisation:And my point was he had a mental advantage, yet despite that failed to defeat Maul.
According to the RotS novel, Kenobi used Ataru up to the Dooku duel. Please don't tell me that book could be inaccurate, my heart may not take it. Regardless, Maul fought Kenobi when he used Ataru in TPM and then in Revival or Revenge or whatever Kenobi went aggressive on him. They were likely surprised he was taking the offensive when it was 2 vs 1. Not that's them being surprised is nearly as significant a factor as Kenobi fighting two people at once.
Lmao, he didn't fail to defeat him. He cut his brothers arm off and had Maul running like a choirboy in the Vatican. Dude got wrecked.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
No there aren't, Kenobi was outclassed by Maul at the same age, and only after gaining a decade of training over him and two years of battlefield experience was he able to compete. Jinn had 40 years on Maul and was prodigy among the Jedi, and yet was thrashed by the twentysomething regardless. Likewise Maul is able to swing with the likes of Dooku and Windu, despite both having many many decades of training and experience on him; no, rather it's a testament to Maul's tutelage and innate talent that he is able to compare despite having a fraction of their training.On the other hand if we wish to change the goal posts and argue that Bane too has the advantage of years over Maul then fair enough, but much like them he's playing catchup. At Maul's age Bane is far from as capable a duelist, and I'm seeing no feats that suggest he became one as of DoE.
There are dozens.
Maul's training was many times more vigorous than Kenobi's was and far more focused on combat. Kenobi's time after TPM was also taken up with training Anakin and various other things. So Maul still had substantially more training than Kenobi and still got wrecked by him. The fact is that for all that Maul was obsessively trained he utterly fell short when compared to others. Ventress is near his level with literally a fraction of his training. Hilarious.
Oh obviously Bane does have that. It's not changing the goal posts, its a fact. But Bane also has a significantly superior learning and became as skilled a Maul in a mere fraction of the time. But that's to be expected. The darkside flowed through Bane to a far greater extent than it ever did Maul.