Luke Skywalker & Obi-Wan Kenobi vs Count Dooku & Arcann

Started by cs_zoltan10 pages
Originally posted by SunRazer
He's on another level in terms of sheer skill (per Nick Gillard's rankings).

lmao

Other sources make it even worse for Obi-Wan, lmfao.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
You mean when he said "Surely, you can do better"?...

I'm pretty sure he was saying that to piss Kenobi off, but whatever 😬

I'm referring to Dooku suddenly moving faster than Obi-Wan can percieve when he actually starts going all-out.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Other sources make it even worse for Obi-Wan, lmfao.

You mean how Dooku shat his pants twice in RotS from Kenobi?

I was talking about supplementary OOU sources.

But if we're using renditions of the film, in the comic, Dooku kicks Obi-Wan unconscious very shortly after the fight begins.

Nothing to do with skill.

No, it has to do with the elasticity of his leg, yeah.

Kenobi was tagged by kicks and punches by far inferior opponents, so I guess you could say Dooku is at least as skilled as Ventress. Good for you.

Apart from TCW, which is just plain inconsistent, Obi-Wan isn't regularly hit by kicks and punches, and certainly not any that knock him out immediately.

The notion that it had nothing to do with skill is pretty laughable. Clearly, the comic is portraying Obi-Wan as the weakest of the three.

And despite your "lmao", Nick Gillard's rankings would suggest that Dooku is still on another level to Obi-Wan as a swordsman.

That seems like a petty distinction. Kenobi getting tagged by those attacks is still exemplary of his combat skill and of his inferiority to Dooku.

Obi-Wan was too devastated to speak. He lunged for Dooku, kicking the count’s legs out from underneath him, then thrust out his hand. Dooku’s lightsaber flew toward him from the corner of the room where it had rolled. Obi-Wan ignited it and placed the tip a hair’s breadth away from Dooku’s chest.

👆

Originally posted by SunRazer
And despite your "lmao", Nick Gillard's rankings would suggest that Dooku is still on another level to Obi-Wan as a swordsman.

No. Gillard's ranking never mentions Dooku. So you try to use other sources to shoehorn Dooku into it, but ignore other sources that places Kenobi close to Mace/Dooku.

Yeah, Obi-Wan rolled with the flow when he was hit there and proceeded to win the duel. On the other hand, Dooku's kick was more of a half-baked dismissal whilst he was still fighting Anakin (he wasn't even facing Obi-Wan), and it knocked Obi-Wan out cold. Totally comparable examples.

As for your second point, that happened when Dooku was caught off guard. Obi-Wan's never come close when actually fighting Dooku.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
No. Gillard's ranking never mentions Dooku. So you try to use other sources to shoehorn Dooku into it, but ignore other sources that places Kenobi close to Mace/Dooku.

I know he doesn't explicitly mention Dooku. However, Anakin's clearly never depicting as actually outskilling Dooku, just being far stronger in the Force. And sources depict Dooku being close to Yoda, too, as far skill goes.

"Close" is a relative term. I already admitted that Obi-Wan can make Dooku work for it, but he's just not equipped to defeat the Count and will eventually go down, however much trouble he gives Tyranus. I know Obi-Wan's comparable the Count, and I have them fairly close. I'm not trying to overstate the difference between the two - I'm just trying to make sure it's noticed.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Yeah, Obi-Wan rolled with the flow when he was hit there and proceeded to win the duel. On the other hand, Dooku's kick was more of a half-baked dismissal whilst he was still fighting Anakin (he wasn't even facing Obi-Wan), and it knocked Obi-Wan out cold. Totally comparable examples.

Yes they are, because we are talking about skill. It doesn't matter that Kenobi was knocked out, because that's not relative to the skill, but the force of the kick.

Originally posted by SunRazer
As for your second point, that happened when Dooku was caught off guard. Obi-Wan's never come close when actually fighting Dooku.

Yeah no, he was aware that the jedi were there.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I know he doesn't explicitly mention Dooku. However, Anakin's clearly never depicting as actually outskilling Dooku, just being far stronger in the Force. And sources depict Dooku being close to Yoda, too, as far skill goes.

And Dooku wasn't depicted as being more skilled than Kenobi in RotS either, just more powerful in the force. I accept your concession.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I know Obi-Wan's comparable the Count, and I have them fairly close. I'm not trying to overstate the difference between the two - I'm just trying to make sure it's noticed.

Are you now? Doesn't seem like that to me.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Per Gillard's rankings, Obi-Wan's a level 8, and Dooku [is inferrably] a level 9. It's a "huge jump" from one level to the next, as Gillard claims.
Originally posted by SunRazer
He's on another level in terms of sheer skill.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Yes they are, because we are talking about skill. It doesn't matter that Kenobi was knocked out, because that's not relative to the skill, but the force of the kick.

Then I guess we can talk about how the Count was fighting Anakin at the time and wasn't even looking at Obi-Wan? Obi-Wan literally charges up the stairs, and Dooku, not even turning, just throws out a kick that floors him.

And it could be just as much that he struck a vital part of the body as the force of the kick.

Yeah no, he was aware that the jedi were there.

He obviously wasn't in a good condition to be blocking it. As I said, Obi-Wan's never managed anything close in actual combat against the Count.

And Dooku wasn't depicted as being more skilled than Kenobi in RotS either, just more powerful in the force. I accept your concession.

According to just a snippet in the novel where they fight inconclusively for a few seconds?

The comic has it another way.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Are you now? Doesn't seem like that to me.

Yeah, that's not overstating. That's fact, lol.

Overstating would be suggesting that the Count wins easily or that he stomps, which I'm not saying. In spite of the Count being on another level in terms of sheer skill, Obi-Wan's Soresu makes it a close and long-lasting fight. Not sure what else you want. Prove that Obi-Wan can win a round, and I'll listen.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Yeah, that's not overstating. That's fact, lol.

It's not a fact because Gillard never put Dooku on tier 9 😬

Also once you say they are close/comparable then you say there's a a huge gap. Make up your mind already.

He puts people in tier 9 who Dooku is an equal to, yeah.

And I'm quoting Gillard with the "huge jump", lol. He defines it as the difference between TPM & RotS Kenobi.

Still, Soresu's defensive properties are pretty much the main reason that Obi-Wan would hold out so long. Dooku kind of has the form advantage otherwise.

Originally posted by SunRazer
He puts people in tier 9 who Dooku is an equal to, yeah.

Dooku is equal to tier 9s by other sources. By other sources Mace puts Kenobi on his own tier, Dooku shits his pants from Kenobi, and Yoda thinks Kenobi can beat tier 9s.

Dooku beats Kenobi in a Sabers only fight. But if Kenobi's fighting at peak efficiency (like he did against Maul/Savage, ROTS Grievous and Anakin), then he will go down after a hard fight.