Luke Skywalker & Obi-Wan Kenobi vs Count Dooku & Arcann

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Dooku is equal to tier 9s by other sources. By other sources Mace puts Kenobi on his own tier, Dooku shat his pants from Kenobi, and Yoda thinks Kenobi can beat tier 9s.

Nah, Gillard's claims would have to align with the RotS script/vision overall. And what's wrong with combining other sources' take on things with Gillard's vision? Mace obviously also fits in tier 9, and Dooku's holistically and skilfully depicted as an equal to him too. Do any objective sources imply that Obi-Wan would be tier 9?

Dooku wasn't shitting any pants. He realized that two things: one, that he had underestimated his opponents and been fooled by their form bullshitting, and two, that he didn't have enough time to break through Obi-Wan's defenses and fight Anakin at the same time. Anakin did all the heavy lifting in that fight - Obi-Wan just drew Dooku away for a while by making him strike uselessly at him. Dooku being driven back, tired etc. was all because of Anakin.

If you're referring to Yoda thinking Obi-Wan can beat Anakin - that's circumstantial, obviously. Anakin's the better swordsman, just worse mentally, and both of them know each other inside-out so well that the skill gap is more or less nullified, so that leaves Obi-Wan with the mental edge. I think that's how Gillard described the fight, too.

Mace puts Obi-Wan in his own tier? When?

If we're playing the "what other people think of me" game, Yoda puts Dooku as >= Mace/Anakin, Thame Cerulian puts Dooku > all, and Obi-Wan thinks Dooku is a perfect swordsman, so checkmate.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Nah, Gillard's claims would have to align with the RotS script/vision overall. And what's wrong with combining other sources' take on things with Gillard's vision? Mace obviously also fits in tier 9, and Dooku's holistically and skilfully depicted as an equal to him too. Do any objective sources imply that Obi-Wan would be tier 9?

Yes, and I listed them 😬

Originally posted by SunRazer
Dooku wasn't shitting any pants. He realized that two things: one, that he had underestimated his opponents and been fooled by their form bullshitting, and two, that he didn't have enough time to break through Obi-Wan's defenses and fight Anakin at the same time. Anakin did all the heavy lifting in that fight - Obi-Wan just drew Dooku away for a while by making him strike uselessly at him. Dooku being driven back, tired etc. was all because of Anakin.

Right, that's why Dooku didn't even dare to strike at Kenobi.

Originally posted by SunRazer
If you're referring to Yoda thinking Obi-Wan can beat Anakin - that's circumstantial, obviously. Anakin's the better swordsman, just worse mentally, and both of them know each other inside-out so well that the skill gap is more or less nullified, so that leaves Obi-Wan with the mental edge. I think that's how Gillard described the fight, too.

The point is if RotS Kenobi is as far below Anakin as TPM Kenobi to RotS Kenobi, then no circumstance would save his ass.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Mace puts Obi-Wan in his own tier? When?

In the RotS novel.

Originally posted by SunRazer
If we're playing the "what other people think of me" game, Yoda puts Dooku as >= Mace/Anakin, Thame Cerulian puts Dooku > all, and Obi-Wan thinks Dooku is a perfect swordsman, so checkmate.

Yoda doesn't put Dooku above Mace.

Lmao Thame wasn't even alive when Kenobi was born.

So?

Lol. Dooku > Kenobi.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Lol. Dooku > Kenobi.

Lol. Never said otherwise.

Kenobi vs Dooku goes on for 6 pages instead of all the fights that can be analyzed/debated here 😬

👆 disgraceful.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan

The point is if RotS Kenobi is as far below Anakin as TPM Kenobi to RotS Kenobi, then no circumstance would save his ass.

Really? Because TPM Kenobi already did defeat a far superior opponent due to circumstance.

And there were many more circumstances involved with the Skywalker vs Kenobi fight, ones which have already been listed by sunrazer

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
👆 disgraceful.

Dooku and Arcann would take both still.

Honestly team 1 should take this in either matchup.

Arcann wouldn't be able to beat Vader in a duel.

Team 1 wins,

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Really? Because TPM Kenobi already did defeat a far superior opponent due to circumstance.

And there were many more circumstances involved with the Skywalker vs Kenobi fight, ones which have already been listed by sunrazer

>TPM Maul
>Far superior to RotS Anakin

lmao

Originally posted by Nephthys
Dooku and Arcann would take both still.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Honestly team 1 should take this in either matchup.

Originally posted by carthage
Arcann wouldn't be able to beat Vader in a duel.

Team 1 wins,

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
>TPM Maul
>Far superior to RotS Anakin

lmao

Superior to TPM Kenobi you dolt

Originally posted by Sinious
Is that a fair comparison?

No. Not at all. Given Arcann isn't Vader's son and isn't going to lash out with Chosen One level Rage Amp.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
No. Not at all. Given Arcann isn't Vader's son and isn't going to lash out with Chosen One level Rage Amp.

Speaking of which I wonder who has more f'ed up daddy issues: Arcann or Luke?

Edit: The answer is probably Anakin.

Originally posted by Sinious
Indeed.

Speaking of which I wonder who has more f'ed up daddy issues: Arcann or Luke?

Edit: The answer is probably Anakin.

Luke's way worse, but he handles it significantly better than Arcann who is just a pussy.

Tbh, being Vitikorion's son has the potential to be something far worse.

Nah, Senya said the worst thing Valkorion did was being distant. Arcann just wants his dick sucked 24/7.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Yes, and I listed them 😬

None of those are objective sources.

Right, that's why Dooku didn't even dare to strike at Kenobi.

Oh my god, Dooku's doesn't want to strike after he's surprised by how the Jedi had just revealed their true forms and has just leapt away from Skywalker. He's lost the fight! Call Carthage for some salt spray!

Your out-of-context excerpt doesn't contradict anything I said. If we won't consider context, then Dooku strikes Obi-Wan with a wheel-kick on the next page.

And anyway, it's only one portrayal of the fight. There's others where Dooku casually knocks Obi-Wan out whilst fighting Anakin and not even bothering to turn Obi-Wan's way.

The point is if RotS Kenobi is as far below Anakin as TPM Kenobi to RotS Kenobi, then no circumstance would save his ass.

Nah, the extent to which the two of them knew each other's forms would've virtually nullified the skill edge. It's not even a matter of skill anymore - it's a matter of memory. It's a bit like Sora Bulq vs Mace Windu.

In the RotS novel.

Can you give me a specific quote?

Yoda doesn't put Dooku above Mace.

I said he puts Dooku >= Mace, which he clearly does in Dark Rendezvous when he says that on neutral ground, Mace would "perhaps be his equal".

Lmao Thame wasn't even alive when Kenobi was born.

You wilted mushroom. Thame putting Dooku > all means he puts Dooku > Yoda, which is infinitely better than being above Kenobi, lol.

So?

So Obi-Wan's not going to win a battle of false, subjective hype from various characters.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Superior to TPM Kenobi you dolt

No. Not at all. Given Arcann isn't Vader's son and isn't going to lash out with Chosen One level Rage Amp.

He doesn't need an amp to beat Arcann, he was already Vader's equal with hardly any training due to his inherent potential. Arcann maxes out at best Kenobi level, when Luke is on par with the greatest Jedi killer/someone canonically superior to Dooku/Maul per Palpatine's word.