Luke Skywalker runs the Ancient Sith Gauntlet

Originally posted by MythLord
Um, no he wasn't. Exar Kun was, and Nadd is arguably greater than him, and Muur/Pall were ranked alongside him. And Marka's accolade was a Publisher's Summary, which is of dubious canonicity.

Other sources note he is the "greatest of the ancient Dark Lords", but this was more due to Marka making the Sith Empire more powerful than it was in centuries, through more than just his power.

Haazen, who has one of the weakest connections to the Force in the mythos, can successfully use the gauntlets of Ludo Kressh, as well as several other Sith artifacts, to their full capacity. Why couldn't Jaden, on a DS nexus, use just one?

And I would like you to quantify your posts, actually, instead of posting your head-canon. Be worth my time, please.

Yes, I also am sure Gethzerion can attack a defensless man on or off Dathomir. But can she actually do jack to a defending Luke, is the question? mmm

No, not really. She needed to catch Skywalker off-guard on a Dark Side nexus for her to actually overpower him. Doesn't mean she can do that off-nexus, while Luke is actively defending against her.

But, y'know, keep spamming your head-canon at me. Maybe some numbskull reading this will believe it.

But they'd need to gather energies to a significant degree to do so, I refer you to Kallig for reference. And those Sith were just easter eggs.

And the fact that they can leave their tombs means nothing. In fact, it makes their potential manipulation of the masses even more likely.

Now who's using head-canon?
"Marka Ragnos ruled the galaxy with an iron fist. He was the Dark Lord of the Sith — the most powerful of the most powerful. But now he is dead."

Source: Tales of the Jedi: The Golden Age of the Sith 2: Funeral for a Dark Lord (Publisher's Summary)

Marka Ragnos is the greatest Dark Lord of the Sith in Old Republic times:

"Meanwhile, on the far side of the galaxy, the Sith Empire has grown powerful through centuries of dark Force wielding and magic and the hundred-year rule of the greatest Dark Lord of the Sith, MARKA RAGNOS."

Source: Chronicles of the Old Republic

A lot of people also forget to mention, that while strategy is mentioned as one of Ragnos' traits as a Sith Lord, he also has Strength, and Power:

"Strength, power and strategy marked the rule of Marka Ragnos."

Source: The Old Republic: Codex Entry: The Tomb of Marka Ragnos

He's also repeatedly said to be incredibly powerful in the force:

"Finally, a Sith Lord arose who exemplified the virtues of the Sith. Marka Ragnos was an imposing, merciless figure, a master of the Force and the arts of war."

Source: The Old Republic Encyclopedia

"Ragnos was a half-breed Sith, a warlord of tremendous physical power and a frightening grasp of the dark side of the Force."

Source: The Dark Side Sourcebook

Ragnos' scepter isn't the only thing he can use to bump up his power.

"[Marka Ragnos has] the ability to channel the spirits of deceased Sith lords, using their power to supplement [his] own - but at the risk of becoming their puppet."

Source: The Dark Side Sourcebook

Enchanted with dark side sorcery, Marka Ragnos's gauntlets pulse with dark power:

"Ancient but still intact, these gloves appear to be made of black scales; they pulse with a dark power."

Source: Knights of the Old Republic

"Sith Lords such as Tulak Hord and Marka Ragnos were entombed within, along with their powerful dark artifacts - protected by vicious traps and deadly guardians."

Source: The Old Republic Encyclopedia

Ragnos talisman alone was powerful enough to nearly drive Darth ****ing Nox to insanity, and it also blasted him a fair amount back:

Originally posted by: Jmangoham
Now who's using head-canon?

You, because I already countered that quote:

Originally posted by MythLord
Um, no he wasn't. Exar Kun was, and Nadd is arguably greater than him, and Muur/Pall were ranked alongside him. And Marka's accolade was a Publisher's Summary, which is of dubious canonicity.

That quote refers to all Sith before him, who existed at the time(i.e. Ludo Kressh, Naga Sadow, Horak-Mul, etc.) it has no bearing on beings like Nadd or Exar Kun, or even really Muur and Ajunta since they were Dark Jedi Exiles who would plant the seeds for the Sith.

And it's a publisher's summary, which has dubious canonicity.

Originally posted by: Jmangoham
Marka Ragnos is the greatest Dark Lord of the Sith in Old Republic times:

Also already countered, but I guess you don't know how to read properly:

Originally posted by MythLord
Other sources note he is the "greatest of the ancient Dark Lords", but this was more due to Marka making the Sith Empire more powerful than it was in centuries, through more than just his power.

This was through strategy and military tactics, of course. That is why Marka is continuously praised.

Originally posted by: JmangohamA lot of people also forget to mention, that while strategy is mentioned as one of Ragnos' traits as a Sith Lord, he also has Strength, and Power:

And? Any Sith Lord who becomes the Dark Lord of the Sith is characterized for his power and strength, it is one of the primary characteristics of any Sith to elect a leader based on strength. That doesn't neccessarily mean he's as powerful as his predecessors like Ajunta Pall or successors like Exar Kun or Freedon Nadd.

And you forget to mention how Ragnos only became Lord of the Sith through a series of short and ruthless campaigns, which requires more strategy than strength:

Taken from: The Dark Side Sourcebook
He[Marka Ragnos] rose to prominence through a series of short, ruthless campaigns against his enemies.

And he's kept this grip over the Sith through manipulation, assassination, and thus crushing any potential resistance:

Taken from: The Dark Side Sourcebook
Once he gained control of the Sith Empire, he maintained dominance by pitting his detractors against one another, manipulating them into challenging him, or simply assassinating them. Among the Sith, Marka Ragnos was feared, obeyed, and admired. Marka Ragnos retained power for over a century, crushing all resistance -- but he expanded the Sith Empire only slightly in all that time.

So strategy is one of his core traits and one that made him stand out among the Sith.

Originally posted by: Jmangoham
He's also repeatedly said to be incredibly powerful in the force:

I legitimately do not give a damn. Any Jedi Master is "incredibly powerful", the "top of their craft" and can "unlock secrets most Jedi Knights can only dream of comprehending", but standard Jedi Masters are general fodder to beings of Caedus' calibre. 👆

Originally posted by: Jmangoham
Ragnos' scepter isn't the only thing he can use to bump up his power.

Well unless they're fighting in a graveyard, I legitimately do not care. And I doubt Marka would risk getting possessed by his predecessors.

Originally posted by: Jmangoham
Enchanted with dark side sorcery, Marka Ragnos's gauntlets pulse with dark power:

I also really don't care. He has a great amount of trinkets, good for him. That doesn't mean he's more powerful than the next Darth Vader, lmao.

Originally posted by: Jmangoham
Ragnos talisman alone was powerful enough to nearly drive Darth ****ing Nox to insanity, and it also blasted him a fair amount back:

An easter egg. And honestly, either Vader or Caedus would blast back Nox like a ragdoll. 👆

You, because I already countered that quote:

Also already countered, but I guess you don't know how to read properly:

And you forget to mention how Ragnos only became Lord of the Sith through a series of short and ruthless campaigns, which requires more strategy than strength:

And he's kept this grip over the Sith through manipulation, assassination, and thus crushing any potential resistance:

So strategy is one of his core traits and one that made him stand out among the Sith.

I also really don't care. He has a great amount of trinkets, good for him. That doesn't mean he's more powerful than the next Darth Vader, lmao.

An easter egg. And honestly, either Vader or Caedus would blast back Nox like a ragdoll.

Originally posted by MythLord
You, because I already countered that quote:

That quote refers to all Sith before him, who existed at the time(i.e. Ludo Kressh, Naga Sadow, Horak-Mul, etc.) it has no bearing on beings like Nadd or Exar Kun, or even really Muur and Ajunta since they were Dark Jedi Exiles who would plant the seeds for the Sith.

And it's a publisher's summary, which has dubious canonicity.

Also already countered, but I guess you don't know how to read properly:

This was through strategy and military tactics, of course. That is why Marka is continuously praised.

And? Any Sith Lord who becomes the Dark Lord of the Sith is characterized for his power and strength, it is one of the primary characteristics of any Sith to elect a leader based on strength. That doesn't neccessarily mean he's as powerful as his predecessors like Ajunta Pall or successors like Exar Kun or Freedon Nadd.

And you forget to mention how Ragnos only became Lord of the Sith through a series of short and ruthless campaigns, which requires more strategy than strength:

And he's kept this grip over the Sith through manipulation, assassination, and thus crushing any potential resistance:

So strategy is one of his core traits and one that made him stand out among the Sith.

I legitimately do not give a damn. Any Jedi Master is "incredibly powerful", the "top of their craft" and can "unlock secrets most Jedi Knights can only dream of comprehending", but standard Jedi Masters are general fodder to beings of Caedus' calibre. 👆

Well unless they're fighting in a graveyard, I legitimately do not care. And I doubt Marka would risk getting possessed by his predecessors.

I also really don't care. He has a great amount of trinkets, good for him. That doesn't mean he's more powerful than the next Darth Vader, lmao.

An easter egg. And honestly, either Vader or Caedus would blast back Nox like a ragdoll. 👆

And repeatedly saying "I don't care, he's not that powerful, he actually sucks because....... uh... idk, he just does."

You've countered nothing, you are believing what you wanna believe, and thats a common problem you have in your arguments.

If you could call that an argument.

Yeah, no. Publisher Summary's are just used to hype people up for the book. And you seem to have a reading disability, since I specifically countered your point even if I was to take the Publisher Summary as legitimate canon.

But going by your logic, Publisher Summary's are definitely canon so that means Darth Caedus is canonically > Darth Vader, who in turn is indeed superior to any of the Ancients bar potentially Exar Kun. Therefore, Caedus is more powerful than Marka based on that merit.

And when did I say Marka isn't powerful? 😂 I actually think he is, but I don't believe simply being noted as "incredibly poweful", which even sub-Kyle Katarn faggs were noted as, would make him Caedus tier+.

Not to mention you've completely ignored Marka's rule being based mostly on his strategic genius and manipulation, and laughed that off as me saying "He ain't powerful!" I'm not even going to tackle whatever cancer Beefy is spewing.

If there's anything I want you to take out of this, Jmango, it's: Learn to read.

Yeah, no. Publisher Summary's are just used to hype people up for the book. And you seem to have a reading disability, since I specifically countered your point even if I was to take the Publisher Summary as legitimate canon.

But going by your logic, Publisher Summary's are definitely canon so that means Darth Caedus is canonically > Darth Vader, who in turn is indeed superior to any of the Ancients bar potentially Exar Kun. Therefore, Caedus is more powerful than Marka based on that merit.

And when did I say Marka isn't powerful? laughing out loud I actually think he is, but I don't believe simply being noted as "incredibly poweful", which even sub-Kyle Katarn faggs were noted as, would make him Caedus tier+

Not to mention you've completely ignored Marka's rule being based mostly on his strategic genius and manipulation, and laughed that off as me saying "He ain't powerful!" I'm not even going to tackle whatever cancer Beefy is spewing.

Originally posted by MythLord
Yeah, no. Publisher Summary's are just used to hype people up for the book. And you seem to have a reading disability, since I specifically countered your point even if I was to take the Publisher Summary as legitimate canon.

But going by your logic, Publisher Summary's are definitely canon so that means Darth Caedus is canonically > Darth Vader, who in turn is indeed superior to any of the Ancients bar potentially Exar Kun. Therefore, Caedus is more powerful than Marka based on that merit.

And when did I say Marka isn't powerful? 😂 I actually think he is, but I don't believe simply being noted as "incredibly poweful", which even sub-Kyle Katarn faggs were noted as, would make him Caedus tier+.

Not to mention you've completely ignored Marka's rule being based mostly on his strategic genius and manipulation, and laughed that off as me saying "He ain't powerful!" I'm not even going to tackle whatever cancer Beefy is spewing.

If there's anything I want you to take out of this, Jmango, it's: Learn to read.

You haven't countered a single damn thing. Yeah?... There's no reason to believe Caedus wouldn't be above Vader, its a commonlu debated thing on KMC if you haven't noticed.

You are now the one using head-canon by saying "publisher's summary's can't be used".

Whenever I've presented evidence, it's "I don't care, he still isn't more powerful". That is not an argument, that is you in denial and choosing not to take evidence into account simply because you don't want to.

I'm done with this argument, have a good day. 🙂

Just out of Interest, how near is Kressh to Sadow?
It seems like Sadow is clearly superior, and that by a very fair marigin, but idk.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Just out of Interest, how near is Kressh to Sadow?
It seems like Sadow is clearly superior, and that by a very fair marigin, but idk.

In a duel, they were equal until Sadow threw a brick at Kressh's head with the force while he was focused on Sadow.

Interesting, have you scans?

Originally posted by Jmanghan
That entire post was pointless, all you did was ramble.

Still cannot read, I see.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
You haven't countered a single damn thing. Yeah?... There's no reason to believe Caedus wouldn't be above Vader, its a commonlu debated thing on KMC if you haven't noticed.

Well, according to a Publisher's Summary, it is very much clear that Jacen is Vader's superior, and that he is the next, and upgraded Vader. Is it true? Well, going by your logic it is.

Just because others debate it commonly doesn't mean jack, since others debate commonly that Ajunta, Nadd or Kun are > Ragnos, as well, tbh. And at least one of them is canonically superior to him.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
You are now the one using head-canon by saying "publisher's summary's can't be used".

What? When did I say that? I am noting it's canonicity is under suspect, nothing more. I'm not saying: "Don't outright use it!" But, you and Beefy are incapable of reading. 👆

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Whenever I've presented evidence, it's "I don't care, he still isn't more powerful". That is not an argument, that is you in denial and choosing not to take evidence into account simply because you don't want to.

You posted evidence, I posted a counter. He can throw Nox as a game mechanic? Why couldn't Jacen take her on a ride, really? He's incredibly powerful? So are standard Jedi Masters Jacen can dominate. He's canonically better than Naga Sadow, Tulak Hord, and Ludo Kressh? Great, Caedus is canonically better than Vader who beats any of those fuggs.

See where I'm going with this? I'm not dismissing sources just based on headcanon, but rather because they don't make Marka superior to Solo.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Interesting, have you scans?

Lol a picture is worth a thousand words. Not sure we are the ones with a reading problem. 👆

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Lol a picture is worth a thousand words. Not sure we are the ones with a reading problem. 👆

Eh, In force only, I don't see him so near to Sadow. Definietly close, tho.
Thanks for the Scan.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Eh, In force only, I don't see him so near to Sadow. Definietly close, tho.
Thanks for the Scan.

Kressh has more feats then Sadow does.

He crushed a giant statue by lifting his finger.

Still Sub-Hamner 🙂
Nah, I rank him under Sadow, but he would win 4/10, imo.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Still Sub-Hamner 🙂
Nah, I rank him under Sadow, but he would win 4/10, imo.

Uthar Wynn said that he was the greatest of the Korriban Sith Lords (which isn't true, but still.)

Hamner ragdolled Kyp, tho 🙂
(No, I am don't joking. Hamner>>>>>>Durron, which manipulated Dorvin Basals easier than Luke, so Hamner is the strongest non entity 😉 )

Originally posted by Jmanghan
That wasn't in response to Myth's argument. :/

I know, but a long "nahhh" isn't an argument.