Luke Skywalker runs the Ancient Sith Gauntlet

Originally posted by MythLord
Still cannot read, I see.

Well, according to a Publisher's Summary, it is very much clear that Jacen is Vader's superior, and that he is the next, and upgraded Vader. Is it true? Well, going by your logic it is.

Just because others debate it commonly doesn't mean jack, since others debate commonly that Ajunta, Nadd or Kun are > Ragnos, as well, tbh. And at least one of them is canonically superior to him.

What? When did I say that? I am noting it's canonicity is under suspect, nothing more. I'm not saying: "Don't outright use it!" But, you and Beefy are incapable of reading. 👆

You posted evidence, I posted a counter. He can throw Nox as a game mechanic? Why couldn't Jacen take her on a ride, really? He's incredibly powerful? So are standard Jedi Masters Jacen can dominate. He's canonically better than Naga Sadow, Tulak Hord, and Ludo Kressh? Great, Caedus is canonically better than Vader who beats any of those fuggs.

See where I'm going with this? I'm not dismissing sources just based on headcanon, but rather because they don't make Marka superior to Solo.

"Vader is superior because I said so!" is not an argument.

Kun is above him, but I have Kun above Caedus, and hell, Krayt, even.

You're saying it's suspect when we have no reason to believe it's suspect.

I never said Caedus, or even Jacen, couldn't ragdoll Nox, so you're incorrect about that.

I've never seen anyone recently argue that Ajunta, or even Nadd was superior to Ragnos.

I've laid out proof, you've countered nothing.

Your opinion is not an argument, saying X is more powerful then Y is pointless when you can't prove it, the only argument you've made, at all, is the whole Jacen being more powerful then Vader, which automatically makes him more powerful then Ragnos.

It doesn't.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
"Vader is superior because I said so!" is not an argument.

Well, logically, Vader is ahead of any one of them aside from Exar Kun. His monsterous TK feats sh!t on them, and he certainly has enough raw power and knowledge to deal with whatever sorcery they can bring to the table, and Jacen even moreso.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Kun is above him, but I have Kun above Caedus, and hell, Krayt, even.

It's funny how you're accusing me of saying: "Vader is more powerful cuz I say so" and laughing it off as my opinion, yet you're doing the exact same thing for Ragnos and Kun. Just saying: "They're more powerful" and basing it off of nothing.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
You're saying it's suspect when we have no reason to believe it's suspect.

Because novel/comic blurbs are meant to just hype up the reader for the story inside. It isn't written by any of the authors of said story/series, some dude just slapped it on for it to catch the reader's eye.

But even being generous to you and saying yes it is canon, Kun is still canonically ahead of Marka Ragnos and Kun VS Vader can be debated for days on end and Caedus is canonically ahead of Vader.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
I never said Caedus, or even Jacen, couldn't ragdoll Nox, so you're incorrect about that.

You were arguing that because Marka did it, that makes him more powerful than Jacen, however, so clearly you're implying it is outside his paygrade.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
I've never seen anyone recently argue that Ajunta, or even Nadd was superior to Ragnos.

And you're assuming that means they cannot be his superiors? That's a mighty fine bandwagon fallacy you got goin' on there, son.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
I've laid out proof, you've countered nothing.

You still don't know how to read.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Your opinion is not an argument, saying X is more powerful then Y is pointless when you can't prove it, the only argument you've made, at all, is the whole Jacen being more powerful then Vader, which automatically makes him more powerful then Ragnos.

I love the utter hypocrisy and double-standard that you're posting. You're essentially toting that Ragnos and Exar are better than Caedus and Vader, posted generic accolades to prove it, and are now saying: "Well yeah, they're on dat level or better, yeah, tots, legit!" Yet then rant at me about me saying:"No, Vader vs Kun is debatable; Caedus is better than Vader, Ragnos is inferior to Kun, so inferrably Caedus is greater than Marka."

Originally posted by MythLord
Well, logically, Vader is ahead of any one of them aside from Exar Kun. His monsterous TK feats sh!t on them, and he certainly has enough raw power and knowledge to deal with whatever sorcery they can bring to the table, and Jacen even moreso.

It's funny how you're accusing me of saying: "Vader is more powerful cuz I say so" and laughing it off as my opinion, yet you're doing the exact same thing for Ragnos and Kun. Just saying: "They're more powerful" and basing it off of nothing.

Because novel/comic blurbs are meant to just hype up the reader for the story inside. It isn't written by any of the authors of said story/series, some dude just slapped it on for it to catch the reader's eye.

But even being generous to you and saying yes it is canon, Kun is still canonically ahead of Marka Ragnos and Kun VS Vader can be debated for days on end and Caedus is canonically ahead of Vader.

You were arguing that because Marka did it, that makes him more powerful than Jacen, however, so clearly you're implying it is outside his paygrade.

And you're assuming that means they cannot be his superiors? That's a mighty fine bandwagon fallacy you got goin' on there, son.

You still don't know how to read.

I love the utter hypocrisy and double-standard that you're posting. You're essentially toting that Ragnos and Exar are better than Caedus and Vader, posted generic accolades to prove it, and are now saying: "Well yeah, they're on dat level or better, yeah, tots, legit!" Yet then rant at me about me saying:"No, Vader vs Kun is debatable; Caedus is better than Vader, Ragnos is inferior to Kun, so inferrably Caedus is greater than Marka."

By power-scaling, if Ragnos is the most powerful of the most powerful, he's above the other powerful sith like Hord, Sadow, Pall, Muur, and Nadd.

But even if that isn't enough for Ragnos to be superior to Caedus, you're still ignoring the fact that his trinkets such as his gauntlets and scepter will also increase his power tremendously, and its not like he'll just forget them and leave them behind, they're things he regularly uses, Caedus doesn't have anything like that.

An author's opinion was that Exar Kun was a match for Palpatine.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
By power-scaling, if Ragnos is the most powerful of the most powerful, he's above the other powerful sith like Hord, Sadow, Pall, Muur, and Nadd.

But even if that isn't enough for Ragnos to be superior to Caedus, you're still ignoring the fact that his trinkets such as his gauntlets and scepter will also increase his power tremendously, and its not like he'll just forget them and leave them behind, they're things he regularly uses, Caedus doesn't have anything like that.

An author's opinion was that Exar Kun was a match for Palpatine.

That doesn´t include Nadd an Kun, which lived after him.

If Ragnos isn´t even close to Caedus, then also his Trinkets don´t be comparabale to him. I am not saying, that he isn´t comparable, but that Caedus is superior by a fair marigin to Ragnos. Hell, raging Traitor Jacen is better than Ragnos.
Also, most other ancient Sith also had their trinkets: Muurs talisman, Palls sword, Kresshs amulets...
So, if Ragnos trinkets aren´t included in the quote, than the ones of the others aren´t as well. Non-Trinket-Ragnos>Non-Trinket-Pall=/=Non-Trinket-Ragnos>Trinket-Pall.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
By power-scaling, if Ragnos is the most powerful of the most powerful, he's above the other powerful sith like Hord, Sadow, Pall, Muur, and Nadd.

Nadd wasn't alive at the time of the accolade, so it shouldn't apply to him. The quote itself refers to Sith which technically Pall and Muur aren't.

So Sadow, Hord and Kressh are inferior to Ragnos? That's good I guess.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
But even if that isn't enough for Ragnos to be superior to Caedus, you're still ignoring the fact that his trinkets such as his gauntlets and scepter will also increase his power tremendously, and its not like he'll just forget them and leave them behind, they're things he regularly uses, Caedus doesn't have anything like that.

Those trinkets of his do not amp him. Not nearly as much as you are suggesting, at least. By this same token, however, Jacen exhibited the ability to draw on the undead world as a two year old, so he can amp himself.

His scepter isn't going to do jack to Jacen who can deflect, or dodge such blasts.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
An author's opinion was that Exar Kun was a match for Palpatine.

Which is irrelevant to me, because author's have the opinions that Caedus, Revan and Sheev are the most powerful Sith, so all three of them are > Kun now, and Kun is canonically greater than Marka. mmm

Originally posted by MythLord
Kun is canonically greater than Abeloth.

Kill self, plz.

Hamner is canonically greater than Kyp 🙂

Originally posted by MythLord
Kill self, plz.

but that Caedus is superior by a fair marigin to Ragnos

The Statement that he is >Vader, and dominating Vergere pre-prime.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
The Statement that he is >Vader, and dominating Vergere pre-prime.

What does vergere have to do with anything? The statement (take it how you want) is only relevant if you believe Vader>All ancient sith. I don't think he's superior to quite a number of them, so Caedus' power while greater than Vader, still wouldn't compare to some of the ancients.

I think that Vader is >all ancients, but Kun, so, yeah.
Vergere is damn powerful, dominating her is extremely nice.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
I think that Vader is >all ancients, but Kun, so, yeah.
Vergere is damn powerful, dominating her is extremely nice.

Disagree on both. Vergere has some esoteric techniques and an interesting perspective on the force.. That's about it.

She severed an Jacen from the force, which has seemingly hurled 40m Ships, to this time. Need a quote, tho. He had also killed many Vong with TK.

Vergere severed Jacen prior to a massive power-growth, IIRC, afterwards, Jacen basically one-shots her, a building and a large group of Vong while angry. 👆

Before that feat, Jacen was enormous powerful, so... 😄

Yeah. IIRC, at this time he could summon pure Force energy to deflect turboblasters and crack lightsaber resistant armor by throwing a table hard enough with TK, so that's pretty good.

Originally posted by MythLord
Vergere severed Jacen prior to a massive power-growth, IIRC, afterwards, Jacen basically one-shots her, a building and a large group of Vong while angry. 👆

The effects of the Force Sever had worn off by then and he was massively amped at this point. No doubt, the novel goes into quite some detail about how rage-fuelled he was, even to the point where he passed out from it. Everything considered, it's not that great of a feat.

Originally posted by MythLord
[B]Yeah. IIRC, at this time he could summon pure Force energy to deflect turboblasters

This has been debunked.

and crack lightsaber resistant armor by throwing a table hard enough with TK

And this doesn't make sense, and sounds like another dubious case of Caedus baloney reminiscent of ancient power's famed interpretations.