I wouldn't call it PIS, only the two Anakins had greater potential, then he had, iirc.
Also, IIRC, enough people get a huge power boost, after they've become dark siders.
Imo is his feat of one-shotting Vergere, while angry, and his huge powergrowrt; as well as the quote that place him over Vader, enough to say, that he is over all ancients, bar Kun.
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
This has been debunked.
I would like to hear said debunking.
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
And this doesn't make sense, and sounds like another dubious case of Caedus baloney reminiscent of ancient power's famed interpretations.
It isn't. Tsavong Lah had lightsaber resistant armor, to the point that Jacen's only hope to killing him was to find the one weakspot and pierce it, and yet Jacen used the Force to crack said armor.
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
The effects of the Force Sever had worn off by then and he was massively amped at this point. No doubt, the novel goes into quite some detail about how rage-fuelled he was, even to the point where he passed out from it. Everything considered, it's not that great of a feat.
I am aware they worn off, hence why I mentioned his power-growth.
And he wasn't unconscious from the amp, he just fell to the floor and gasped. The novel doesn't point to him being "massively amped", just him being angered and letting go of any of his emotional instabilities about the right and wrong of the Force, which essentially allowed him to go all-out.
Jacen has always been emotionally unbalanced, much like his grandfather as a Jedi, so when he finally lets that unbalance go and dwells into the Dark Side, he unleashes his "true power" so to speak.
The feat is nothing Darth Caedus would be incapable of, given the massive power-growth, the no longer lingering emotional instability over the right-and-wrong and much more knowledge and mastery over the Force.
Originally posted by Ursumeles
I wouldn't call it PIS, only the two Anakins had greater potential, then he had, iirc.
Also, IIRC, enough people get a huge power boost, after they've become dark siders.
Imo is his feat of one-shotting Vergere, while angry, and his huge powergrowrt; as well as the quote that place him over Vader, enough to say, that he is over all ancients, bar Kun.
Yea that's if you believe Vader>Ancients. I don't have Vader above guys like Muur, Nadd, Kun, Ragnos, maybe even Pall/Hord but they're unknown so it's questionable. So I don't have Caedus above those guys as well.
Originally posted by Ursumeles
I've heard often, that it was debunked, but never found a proof.
Don't make me regret spending time digging out texts for you Ursumeles. You haven't done a good job in proving yourself, and I think you might be an alt. Moving on. Question, have you tried searching for the relevant text in it's entirety? This is what I found.
“An eerie chorus of squeals arose as the cannon strikes found the buried swarm of Iesei, and the haze grew heavy with the bitter smell of scorched chitin. More bolts began to sizzle down all around Jaina and Zekk, raising chest-high sand geysers and charging the air with static. [b]They raised their lightsabers and yielded control to the Force, then started to whirl and dance across the dune, dodging incoming fire and deflecting it into the ground beside their feet.
Zekk took a cannon blast full on his blade and was driven to his knees. Jaina spun to his side and tapped two more bolts away, only to find herself badly out of position as a third dropped toward her head.
Zekk’s lightsaber swept up just centimeters from her face, catching the bolt on the blade tip and sending it zipping across the dune. Jaina spun away from another attack and glimpsed Jacen and Tahiri standing back-to-back, [b]Jacen holding his hand above their heads, cannon fire ricocheting away as though he held a deflector shield in his palm.[b/] That was something Jaina and Zekk had never seen before.
Then the fusillade was past, leaving in its[…]”
Excerpt From Star Wars: Dark Nest III - The Swarm War.
Whatever was firing at them can not have been considerable enough to be classed as turbolasers, or even "light turbo-lasers". This is evidenced by two points. Zekk - a scrub tier - was able to summon the strength deflect the bolts with his lightsaber and rebuke them. The second point is this.
"More bolts began to sizzle down all around Jaina and Zekk, raising chest-high sand geysers and charging the air with static.
Excerpt From Star Wars: Dark Nest III - The Swarm War.
The bolts being fired are described as raising chest-high sand geisers when they hit the ground. So very cleary, this is not even a feat worthy of Ulic Qel-droma.
Proving myself in what, exactly?
Also, where should I search? I've searched after "Jacen Solo debunked" at KMC and Google, and didn't found anything. And I don't own any DNT book.
Also, Wollf said "at this time", which should mean, before Jacen was severed from the force.
Still thanks for the quote, yeah, Its debunked.
Also, Quel-Droma is powerful, kek.
I would like to hear said debunking.
Well Mr Harrison, the text bares it all and one would suggest reading it to get a better understanding. You can clearly see why Jacen doesn't have to wear his turbolaser resistant gloves to deflect something that only impacts meter-high puffs of sand. I'm pretty certain that Shakk ti could probably deflect that.
It isn't. Tsavong Lah had lightsaber resistant armor, to the point that Jacen's only hope to killing him was to find the one weakspot and pierce it, and yet Jacen used the Force to crack said armor.
Interpretations are nice. Text is even better. It is not that I don't trust your judgement, it's just that Chinese whispers have lead to myths which just refuse to die. Caedus is one of those characters that comes dressed in tales of extravagance, only to find that the stories have several blemishes upon closer inspection making them evermore plain. I will wait for the text.
And he wasn't unconscious from the amp, he just fell to the floor and gasped. The novel doesn't point to him being "massively amped", just him being angered and letting go of any of his emotional instabilities about the right and wrong of the Force, which essentially allowed him to go all-out.
No offence, but the short-handed axiom of amping seems to change with convenience. If you're arguing that Jacen experienced a fait acompli of power, that he could not draw upon in a usual circumstance, then that would count as an amp. If your saying that he tapped into 'true reserves' of power that he had not mastered fully, then that would also count an amp. In that excerpt Jacen experiences a rage unlike ever before which basically takes over his consciousness. It's very possible that he was not even in full control over his own actions, suggesting an external factor was catalysing events.
The feat is nothing Darth Caedus would be incapable of
It's also something Maul should be pulling off just fine -click me- and I see more people praying at the alter of Solo than Maul.
When Zekk took on the full strength of the cannons, he was dropped to his knees:
"Zekk took a cannon blast full on his blade and was driven to his knees."
Heck, Jaina, Zekk and even Lowbacca were disarmed several times by the fire:
"Jaina, Zekk, and the others raised their lightsabers and started to knock the beams back toward the vessel. Unlike blaster bolts-which carried very little kinetic charge-the charric beams struck with an enormous impact. Several times Jaina, Zekk, and even Lowbacca felt their lightsabers fly from their grasps and had to use the Force to recall the weapons."
Regarding the sand-geyser thing, usually sand-geysers are a phenomenon that can only be caused from the effects of earthquakes, so that should still take a decent amount of force to create. You're also forgetting to mention how it was initially chest-high, but later raised to the point that it completely obscured the vision of Zekk and Jaina, so it's at least rising to their height.
Also, not only were the cannons themselves called turbo-blasters:
"A blue cascade of cannon bolts began to sweep across the dune, its deep thump-thumping an almost gentle counter-point to the crashing roar of the turbolasers."
But it also killed most of the Iesei:
"Jaina and Zekk started toward the crest again, but it was clear they would never reach it ahead of the Chiss drop ship. The sandslide had carried them to the bottom of the dune, and with most of the Iesei dead or dying, the turbolaser gunners were once again beginning to concentrate their fire on the Jedi.
[...]
Jaina and Zekk and the others continued to ascend the slope in Force leaps, but there was no sign of any healthy Killiks-either the laser cannons had gotten them all, or the survivors were staying hidden."
And they later damage two starfighters when the turboblasters were turned against a Star Destroyer:
"Small disks of turbolaser fire were blossoming around both vessels, and a pair of flame trails were already angling down toward the horizon where two damaged starfighters had plunged into the atmosphere.
Originally posted by Ursumeles
Right. BTW, care to debate Ragnos vs Vader?
Sure but you have someone with the most accolades in the mythos versus someone with relevant quotes pertaining to power. Wouldn't be much of a debate with so many unknowns but i will happily engage against the silly belief that vader>ancient sith, using my argument in the other subforum about the ancients having access to more power and techniques. Remember, we aren't arguing raw power because vader would probably win against everyone.
Also wolf didn't prove anything.
Originally posted by MythLord
When Zekk took on the full strength of the cannons, he was dropped to his knees
Ah yes, I suppose because Zekk had some resistance deflecting the cannons must make them turbolaser-worthy- correct ? well no... when you consider that Mara Jade has had trouble mustering the strength to deflect oncoming AT ST fire, and that Zekk is probably even weaker than that - you have what's called a moot point. Now wolfmyth, i'm a pretty capable reader, and if I thought that Zekk's limitations were a sign that the shots he's deflecting are bolts capable of creating havoc - and not just meter high wiffs of sand - I'd let you know. As it stands Zekk being driven to his knees - but still deflecting the canons nonetheless - is one against and not for the famed turbo-laser argument.
Heck, Jaina, Zekk and even Lowbacca were disarmed several times by the fire
So far you have proven that the canons in question are more powerful than standard issue blaster bolts.
Regarding the sand-geyser thing, usually sand-geysers are a phenomenon that can only be caused from the effects of earthquakes
Physics is not your friend.
This is what a sand-geyser looks like and it can be produced when enough mass hits the ground for sand particles to disperse. Modern grenades can form them - easily. But just to put things in perspective, the tiniest US bomb ever produced detonates with 20 tons of explosive force. The crater produced with it would be about ten meters wide, The fire ball radius would be 20 meters high and the air pressure would be the same as felt inside of a steam boiler on a locomotive. Within 60 meters of the explosion, heavily built concrete buildings would be severely damaged or demolished; no human would survive in that radius. This is far in excess of what those canon's were producing.
You're also forgetting to mention how it was initially chest-high, but later raised to the point that it completely obscured the vision of Zekk and Jaina, so it's at least rising to their height.
Because it's irrelevant, maybe?
Also, not only were the cannons themselves called turbo-blasters:
This is where you can be crowned king of bad interpretations. Tell me... how is this sentence - ts deep thump-thumping an almost gentle counter-point to the crashing roar of the turbolasers is the same as these canons are turbolasers ? What you have given me is a comparison where the cannons in question are described as gentle counter points to turbolasers. This here is your point destroyed completely, because the text illicitly states that they are not the turbolasers you want them to be. Check mate.
Originally posted by MythLord
Nadd wasn't alive at the time of the accolade, so it shouldn't apply to him. The quote itself refers to Sith which technically Pall and Muur aren't.So Sadow, Hord and Kressh are inferior to Ragnos? That's good I guess.
Those trinkets of his do not amp him. Not nearly as much as you are suggesting, at least. By this same token, however, Jacen exhibited the ability to draw on the undead world as a two year old, so he can amp himself.
His scepter isn't going to do jack to Jacen who can deflect, or dodge such blasts.
Which is irrelevant to me, because author's have the opinions that Caedus, Revan and Sheev are the most powerful Sith, so all three of them are > Kun now, and Kun is canonically greater than Marka. mmm
Head-canon.
Head-canon.
Head-canon.
But nice "counters though".
Canonically they do amp just about anyone who uses them, and you can't prove they don't. I've already proved they have by posting EVIDENCE. You know, that thing that proves your point that you seem to have no knowledge of?
Yeah, that thing, that you absolutely refuse to use.
You're basing this all off assumption, its immature, and pretty sad, no wonder no one takes your arguments seriously.
