This is more impressive than anything Darth Vader has shown besides (possibly) overpowering Starkiller Lesser Force Shield. ^
In the ruined archive hall of LiMerge Power's plasma facility, Count Dooku waited for Kenobi and Skywalker to arrive. The room was enormous by any standard, thirty meters high and three times that in circumference.More droids appeared. To Dooku, this was nothing more than a game, Obi-Wan told himself. But if it was a demonstration of Force ability Dooku wanted, then Anakin was still more than willing to provide it.
"Dooku!" he howled.
With such force and wrath that the ceiling of the vast hall began to collapse.
---
Dragging himself out from under plasteel girders and chunks of ferrocrete, Count Dooku came shakily to his feet and gazed in astonished disbelief at the shambles of the control room. Had the containment dome been so weak that it had succumbed to flurries of ricocheting blaster bolts, or had Skywalker's voiced rage actually called the ceiling down? Had Dooku not leapt forcefully at the last moment, he might have been buried, as the two Jedi were, somewhere below, in the expanse of rubble that covered the archive room. He was certain that they had survived. But if nothing else they were trapped, which had been the intent from the start. But Skywalker...
Assuming that he had grown powerful enough to have collapsed the dome, the end result was simply further evidence that he would someday undo himself. Wasn't it? Because admitting to any alternative explanation meant accepting that Skywalker was potentially a greater threat to the Sith than anyone realized. Initially, it had cheered him to observe that Skywalker and Kenobi had finally learned to fight together; to see how powerful they had become in partnership. Complementing each other's strengths, compensating for each other's weaknesses. Kenobi making full use of his inherent discretion to balance young Skywalker's inattentive rowdiness. He could have watched them until the light faded on fair Tythe. And he wished that General Grievous could have been there to witness the display for himself.
Now he wasn't so sure. What if it should all come crashing down? he found himself thinking, as he dusted himself off and raced to exit the ruined facility. What if Grievous was outwitted and destroyed at Coruscant? Sidious, apprehended and defeated? What if the Jedi should triumph, after all? What would become of his dream of a galaxy brought under eminent stewardship? On Vjun, Yoda had implied that the Jedi Temple would always be open to Dooku's return...
So is this. ^
In regards to comparable feats to breaking Marek's Lesser Force Shield:
👆
Originally posted by MythLord
I'm using your logic, dear. Vader's either an idiot and thinks he himself is a ghost who commited suicide, or he removed his identity as Anakin Skywalker and considers himself a different person, which canonical statements and even Vader's own visions, dreams and personal statements suggest.Anakin wasn't capable of utilizing that power off-world because he's yet to meet his potential. Insider and the UK TCW Magazine practically note that Anakin's full potential rivals that of the Ones. He might not be their equal, but he's certainly not far behind them, whereas someone like Luke obviously is and Luke's innate talent carried him extremely well against Vader.
Again: Sidious said Luke can be far greater than his power meaning he might be superior, just not by a vast degree. This is basic English I'm speaking here, how do you not comprehend it?
Point of the matter is: Luke by Dark Empire has surpassed Vader and all the sources point to that. And Beware the Sith isn't a contrary source since nothing so far has noted that Vader is > RotJ Luke other than Luke's own opinion(and he thinks Ben Kenobi is > him and Sidious, so his opinion doesn't count for sh!t) and that was when Luke was barely conscious...Their respective feats at the time? I don't recall RotJ Luke having any established limit, and he has some nice feats perking up in Vader's corner, especially by Dark Empire.
My opinion happens to be backed by canonical evidence; yours is backed by your own imagination. And Vader thought Anakin was weak because he's a Light Sider, yeah... So what does that have to do with anything? That doesn't counter my point, that just strengthens it: Vader's is blatantly bias against his former self, yet sources that hold more weight than his subjective opinion(Sidious, Fightsaber, StarWars.com, Fact File, Insider) all note one thing: Vader is inferior.
Consider this my last post to you on this topic; I don't have time to run in circles and drill something into a head as thick as yours. 👆
No you're not. And if you think you are that's because you've twisted it to suit your own agenda.
Or he simply refers to himself in the third person to get the point across to both his master and his son that he has rejected the Lightside and does not view things in the same way as his former self. Which, just to clarify, doesn't mean he's going to ignore objective information about himself like how powerful he was.
He is potentially, yes. And that just proves my point. George Lucas's quotes on Luke's potential which comes from the same batch of Vader being diminished are contradicted. By multiple other sources.
What are you talking about? I acknowledged that in the last post. What I'm saying is that Beware the Sith contradicts Sidious's assessment given he said that Luke could surpass both his father and himself. The point being he hadn't surpassed either yet. His feats are around that level which makes sense given Sidious is saying he was capable of surpassing his father if he fully embraces the Darkside and then could eventually do the same with him upon opening himself to his teachings.
"My opinion happens to be backed by canonical evidence; yours is backed by your own imagination."
You just completely summed up my opinion on how I view all people ignoring Vader's assessment based on him referring to himself in the third person.
And what I'm saying is Vader thinks the Lightside is weaker but he doesn't ignores the power individual Force users who employ the Lightside possess and he wouldn't do so with himself either. Rather he's noting that even with his diminished potential the Darkside gives him more power then he could ever have using the Lightside with those same injuries and that he's surpassed even his whole self who employed the Lightside.
Fine by me. You're justifications for such a sill stance were getting tiresome.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
In regards to comparable feats to breaking Marek's Lesser Force Shield:👆
Dooku is > Marek, tbh. 🙂 🙂 🙂
Anyways, I'd argue him throwing a tank so that it has the effect of a bomb(Mace had more trouble just budging the thing), or stomping Asajj with the Force should also be taken into consideration, given Ventress' superiority to beings that rival a padawan Anakin superior to the dreadnaught thrower. 👆
Originally posted by MythLord
Dooku is > Marek, tbh. 🙂 🙂 🙂Anyways, I'd argue him throwing a tank so that it has the effect of a bomb(Mace had more trouble just budging the thing), or stomping Asajj with the Force should also be taken into consideration, given Ventress' superiority to beings that rival a padawan Anakin superior to the dreadnaught thrower. 👆
The acolytes don't rival Anakin. He's far more powerful than them - and more powerful than Ventress.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Quote me on the tank thing.
"Anakin let instinct take over and he was instantly between the stricken AT-TE and the advancing droids, using the fallen vehicle for cover while he deflected small cannon rounds. From the corner of his eye, he saw four white shapes stagger clear, two of them dragging another man. Five. The turret gunner was vaporized. That left one of the crew. Flames now licked from the hatch."
[...]
"The men sprinted for the door, plunging into the acrid black smoke that now filled the courtyard. It was some kind of cover for a few seconds. Anakin saw the droids, hampered by their own debris, and his eyes went to the blazing carcass of the AT-TE.
Just do it. Adrenaline fueled him. He sent the wreckage skidding across the ground with a massive Force push. The kinetic force of the impact and the sheet of flame released when it slammed into the droid ranks had the effect of a bomb going off. Then another explosion-the walker's magazine, probably-sent a fireball soaring into the air."
-- The Clone Wars novelisation
He does more damage and seems to send it farther, and with greater ease, than Mace does when he TKs the tank.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The acolytes don't rival Anakin. He's far more powerful than them - and more powerful than Ventress.
As of the time he threw the Dreadnaughts, he's inferior to prime Asajj tbh, and I'd say choking and incapping Anakin with TK equals rivalling.
Spoiler:
Ant, this just makes the gap between RotS and AotC Anakin bigger, thus Anakin can get even better scaling off the goddamn Dreadnaught thing; work with me here
Sweet, thanks. 👆
Originally posted by MythLord
As of the time he threw the Dreadnaughts, he's inferior to prime Asajj tbh, and I'd say choking and incapping Anakin with TK equals rivalling.Spoiler:
Ant, this just makes the gap between RotS and AotC Anakin bigger, thus Anakin can get even better scaling off the goddamn Dreadnaught thing; work with me here
Probably not. His feats and accolades are better.
Them choking Anakin has nothing to do with power. Resisting Force choke is something that requires knowledge on how to resist it. Without the knowledge, Anakin would be defenseless - hence why he was choked out. After experiencing the power, and thus would have learned a defense, Anakin seemed to decisively defeat them without much difficulty.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Probably not. His feats and accolades are better.Them choking Anakin has nothing to do with power. Resisting Force choke is something that requires knowledge on how to resist it. Without the knowledge, Anakin would be defenseless - hence why he was choked out. After experiencing the power, and thus would have learned a defense, Anakin seemed to decisively defeat them without much difficulty.
Trenox didn't choke him. He KOed him with a single Force Push, something I'd imagine Anakin knows how to defend against. Also quote for resisting choke requiring specific knowledge?
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Link? Doesn't Anakin go on and kill him then?
Anakin drives him back in a duel. But then again, he likely pressed him in a duel enough for Trenox not to abuse a power-edge.
Anyways:
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/5474468-5934279216-54741.gif
After that Anakin is either briefly unconscious or his pixels stare into space, contemplating life.
Like I said, this means RotS Anakin > Dooku >>> Asajj > Trenox >/~ DA Anakin > CIS dreadnaught manipulating Anakin.
By RotS, Anakin should be making dreadnaughts his toyings and throwing them like basketballs.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Dark Empire.
That was at a time where the Force was still being experimented upon, though. Later on, both Kenobi and Jaina seem to break it through sheer Force power(or imply to be capable of doing so, anyways, if they gather enough power). mmm
Originally posted by MythLord
Anakin drives him back in a duel. But then again, he likely pressed him in a duel enough for Trenox not to abuse a power-edge.Anyways:
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/5474468-5934279216-54741.gifAfter that Anakin is either briefly unconscious or his pixels stare into space, contemplating life.
Like I said, this means RotS Anakin > Dooku >>> Asajj > Trenox >/~ DA Anakin > CIS dreadnaught manipulating Anakin.
By RotS, Anakin should be making dreadnaughts his toyings and throwing them like basketballs.
It's inconclusive which power he uses there. Also, the attack seemed something like Anakin wasn't expecting.
I recall Anakin killing Trenox later on, so obviously Trenox didn't have a power edge over him - it was a one-time thing.
That was at a time where the Force was still being experimented upon, though. Later on, both Kenobi and Jaina seem to break it through sheer Force power(or imply to be capable of doing so, anyways, if they gather enough power). mmm
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Changed your opinion on Dooku then?Also would you mind justifying any of these opinions?
Sabers
Dooku never proved superiority over Obi Wan as a lightsaber combatant.
We don't know if ANH Kenobi was > or < then his RotS incarnation as he grew in power but degraded in skill. And no, the shadow of his former self quotes doesn't have to refer to Obi Wan overall and we know this likely not the case given other quotes placing Vader over Anakin.
ANH Kenobi never showed superiority over Vader. At best he proved he could last for an undetermined period against an overly cautious Vader.
Please explain your ranking for ANH Vader =< Galen.
Force
On a Darkside nexus and we don't know the size of said cruisers.
Alright, go ahead. Explain where Kenobi is placed above Rivi Anu. And how does ragdolling Vos place him above Galen?
All Out
You're a trash debater and a shitty troll.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
SabersDooku never proved superiority over Obi Wan as a lightsaber combatant.
We don't know if ANH Kenobi was > or < then his RotS incarnation as he grew in power but degraded in skill. And no, the shadow of his former self quotes doesn't have to refer to Obi Wan overall and we know this likely not the case given other quotes placing Vader over Anakin.
ANH Kenobi never showed superiority over Vader. At best he proved he could last for an undetermined period against an overly cautious Vader.
Please explain your ranking for ANH Vader =< Galen.
Force
On a Darkside nexus and we don't know the size of said cruisers.
Alright, go ahead. Explain where Kenobi is placed above Rivi Anu. And how does ragdolling Vos place him above Galen?
All Out
You're a trash debater and a shitty troll.
1. Degrading in skill doesn't mean your less as an overall lightsaber combatant.
2. What are you referring to?
3. He hasn't.
4. Galen has already defeated TFU Vader in lightsaber combat after he had fought through Imperial forces. You can't say Vader is > Galen as of ANH when in that time span he hasn't fought any other lightsaber wielding opponent and seemed to have actually allowed his ability to decline going by quotes. At best it's uncertain.
5. And? You need to know the extent to which he was amped and the size of the cruisers otherwise you can't scale it to other feats.
6. Yeah, and Wolf's a dumbass ( and yes I mean Wolf, thank you Urs ).
7. Yes.
8 Yes, yes you do and probably throughout your entire time on these forums.
