Anakin Skywalker vs. Arcann and Vaylin

Started by UCanShootMyNova6 pages

1. Except the parallel doesn't work because as a master of Form V and a lightsaber practitioner capable of making modifications to others forms Shien shouldn't be a random form Anakin's never practiced. Especially when it was planned to be used against Dooku beforehand.

2. They wanted to catch Dooku off guard to gain an early advantage which they did.

3. Going by the fact that he's getting frustrated at their lack of progress I'd beg to differ.

Of course it handicapped him. I'm just saying it wouldn't have done so to the point he was a negligible threat to Dooku in conjunction with Kenobi.

No, I agree that an Anakin fully clamping down on his rage should be less. Except there is. I'm not basing my argument that he isn't off of his abrupt drop in performance due to Dooku's Dun Moch but his performance using Shien against Dooku beforehand.

Originally posted by Trocity
Anakin, lol.

Why lol? 😬

My dad has to get on to do grades. I'll add you to my list of daily responses. As always will drop the debate if counters hit 2 page responses. See ya tomorrow Ell.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Why lol? 😬

Faster, stronger, more skilled, more powerful. Arcann and Vaylin might boast considerable power, but I haven't seen the combative feats required from them to beat the man who utterly annihilated Darth Tyranus.

Considering the Outlander can take on both of them backed by Valkorion, I'm thinking Anakin.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
1. Except the parallel doesn't work because as a master of Form V and a lightsaber practitioner capable of making modifications to others forms Shien shouldn't be a random form Anakin's never practiced. Especially when it was planned to be used against Dooku beforehand.

He still didn't employ it regularly in lightsaber combat. I'm still awaiting your justification for claiming that Yoda could own Dooku with a form he never actually uses. You've asserted this, but haven't really supported it with anything...


2. They wanted to catch Dooku off guard to gain an early advantage which they did.

They also wanted Dooku to be shocked when they switched to their real forms and owned him. .i.e. the point was to hide their competence.


3. Going by the fact that he's getting frustrated at their lack of progress I'd beg to differ.

That doesn't mean he wasn't holding back. He was holding back the entire fight until the end; that was like the entire narrative point of the scene.


Of course it handicapped him. I'm just saying it wouldn't have done so to the point he was a negligible threat to Dooku in conjunction with Kenobi.

Why not? I'm sorry, but you keep repeating the idea that Yoda would do better, but don't really explain why.


No, I agree that an Anakin fully clamping down on his rage should be less. Except there is. I'm not basing my argument that he isn't off of his abrupt drop in performance due to Dooku's Dun Moch but his performance using Shien against Dooku beforehand.

He was still emotionally inhibited and deliberately holding back.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
He still didn't employ it regularly in lightsaber combat. I'm still awaiting your justification for claiming that Yoda could own Dooku with a form he never actually uses. You've asserted this, but haven't really supported it with anything...

They also wanted Dooku to be shocked when they switched to their real forms and owned him. .i.e. the point was to hide their competence.

That doesn't mean he wasn't holding back. He was holding back the entire fight until the end; that was like the entire narrative point of the scene.

Why not? I'm sorry, but you keep repeating the idea that Yoda would do better, but don't really explain why.

He was still emotionally inhibited and deliberately holding back.

1. You mean one Yoda's mastered but doesn't use often?

2. This is not supported by the text which shows Anakin growing frustrated at their lack of progress meaning he wasn't expecting to have been completely outclassed like this even using another form.

Dooku gave the slightest glance of concern over his shoulder, distracted
for half an instant, Anakin just couldn't wait anymore. He sprang, lightsaber angled for the kill. Obi-Wan leapt from Dooku's far side in perfect coordination—and they met in midair, for the Sith Lord was no longer between them. Anakin looked up just in time to glimpse the bottom of Dooku's rancor-leather boot as it came down on his face and smacked him tumbling toward the floor." - Revenge of the Sith.

"Anakin launched himself at Dooku's back—and the Count half turned, gesturing casually while holding Obi-Wan at bay with an elegant one-handed bind. Chairs leapt up from the situation table and whirled toward Anakin's head. He slashed the first one in half contemptuously, but the second caught him across the knees and the third battered his shoulder and knocked him down. He snarled to himself and reached through the Force to pick up some chairs of his own— and the situation table itself slammed into him and drove him back to crush him against the wall. His lightsaber came loose from his slackening fingers and clattered across the tabletop to drop to the floor on the far side. And Dooku barely even seemed to be paying attention to him. Pinned, breathless, half stunned, Anakin thought, If this keeps up, I am going to get mad." - Revenge of the Sith.

It implies that despite the ploy Anakin is taking this fight seriously.

3. Holding back his rage. I'm just talking about holding back his skill/speed/strength in a standard state.

Because Yoda showed he was capable of killing an amped Dooku just as quickly if he's actually willing to end the Count's life. That would make him able to essentially blitz a non amped Dooku if he's willing to end his life which makes any gap in skill meaningless.

Granted he was holding back his rage but what do you mean emotionally inhibited?

The duo ragdolls

lmao

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Considering the Outlander can take on both of them backed by Valkorion, I'm thinking Anakin.

Right...

The Outlander is on par with Anakin Skywalker or stronger. Adding Valkorion in the picture, tips the scale in his favor by miles.

Originally posted by SunRazer
lmao

Do you really think that Anakin Skywalker could contend with two Count Dooku level opponents? Not even close.

Arcann and Vaylin are individually more powerful than Count Dooku.

Originally posted by SunRazer
lmao

Honestly depending on Anakin's mental state Vaylin could do so by herself with a fraction of her power.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Do you really think that Anakin Skywalker could contend with two Count Dooku level opponents? Not even close.

Arcann and Vaylin are individually more powerful than Count Dooku.

They're not Dooku level in sabers, which is what this fight will mostly be.

Originally posted by SunRazer
They're not Dooku level in sabers, which is what this fight will mostly be.

Isn't Arcann an extraordinarily skilled duelist?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Isn't Arcann an extraordinarily skilled duelist?

So are all of the people that Tyranus has beaten 😬

Vaylin doesn't seem to have much going for her in skill.

Originally posted by SunRazer
So are all of the people that Tyranus has beaten 😬

Vaylin doesn't seem to have much going for her in skill.


Arcann outdueled the Outlander, my friend.

If the Outlander is Hero of Tython, then I don't need to elaborate further.

Vaylin can play the role of artillery.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Arcann outdueled the Outlander, my friend.

If the Outlander is Hero of Tython, then I don't need to elaborate further.

Vaylin can play the role or artillery.

Since when did Arcann outduel the Outlander? He was forced to resort to abusing the Force.

Vaylin has to play ranged, since she'd get molested in a duel against Yoda/Sidious-tier opponents.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Since when did Arcann outduel the Outlander? He was forced to resort to abusing the Force.

Didn't he?

Depending upon the choices made, Arcann manages to impale the Outlander in one of the confrontations. Even if we assume that the two are on the same level in blade-work, it still puts Arcann above 99% in this area.

Moreover, if Arcann can incorporate Force powers easily in his dueling maneuvers (he does), he is going to overwhelm Anakin Skywalker anyhow.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Vaylin has to play ranged, since she'd get molested in a duel against Yoda/Sidious-tier opponents.

Right.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Didn't he?

Depending upon choices you make, Arcann manages to impale the Outlander in one of the confrontations.

Even if we assume that the two are on the same level in blade-work, Arcann is still better than majority in this area.

Moreover, if Arcann can incorporate Force powers easily in his dueling maneuvers, he is going to defeat Anakin Skywalker anyway.

Right.

Arcann being better than the majority is pretty meaningless. Just about any named Jedi is above the majority, given how many they are.

Arcan isn't ragdolling Anakin, lmfao.

So no proof that Vaylin can stand up to Yoda/Sidious-tier characters? Gotcha.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Arcann being better than the majority is pretty meaningless. Just about any named Jedi is above the majority, given how many they are.

Let go of that nonsense, will you?

Arcann is definitely up there with the greatest duelists of the mythos.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Arcan isn't ragdolling Anakin, lmfao.

Count Dooku could ragdoll Anakin Skywalker, so Arcann can do better.

Originally posted by SunRazer
So no proof that Vaylin can stand up to Yoda/Sidious-tier characters? Gotcha

Not as a duelist, but raw power is another matter.