^ 👆
Originally posted by leonidas
hmm? i know it's stated here:but i thought it came more directly from a comic somewhere to....
... but that's never been mentioned in an actual story.
Originally posted by leonidas
ah. ok then. not sure i agree with it
Originally posted by leonidas
so then how far do you think the force gets? does it clear the field iyo?
The PF's essentiality doesn't necessarily = to power.
The whole "stars" dying thingy, meh, Galactus dies, the whole freakin Multiverse dies.
Captain Universe dies, and all life in the universe dies.
Originally posted by Mr Master
^ 👆I don't know where that's from,
... but that's never been mentioned in an actual story.
maybe. the scan is from a tpb collection of excalibur and was written by alan davis, writer of excalibur.
That mini hierarchy is unquestionable concerning the cats I included.
well, i guess it could be right if we're using old info, but galactus easily wrecked chaos/order (who i'd also place in the same tier as order/chaos) and i don't see him on the list. i'd argue abraxas isn't 'above' eternity either, rather he's simply a different aspect. abraxas isn't above oblivion or death imo, so i wouldn't put him above eternity either even though his function allows him to merge universes.
Imo, since her opponents are at their "peak" ... they all beat her. I only see Meph having problems.The PF's essentiality doesn't necessarily = to power.
The whole "stars" dying thingy, meh, Galactus dies, the whole freakin Multiverse dies. [/B]
obviously i disagree, but 👆
Originally posted by leonidas
but galactus easily wrecked chaos/order (who i'd also place in the same tier as order/chaos)and i don't see him on the list.
I'm willing to bet this is a temporary thing.
Big G is a cat who's involved in many stories, at that power-level, he's dull, like any other,
only so much you can do with him.
So, in that perspective, I see G going back to his roots in the near future.
But for now, if let's say, it would remain this way, then yes, He would obviously be above.
Originally posted by leonidas
i'd argue abraxas isn't 'above' eternity either, rather he's simply a different aspect.
abraxas isn't above oblivion or death imo,so i wouldn't put him above eternity either even though his function allows him to merge universes.
In the end, all that's left, is him, God over oblivion.
No UN, this is exactly what happens.
There is an Excalibur letter's page where the editor mentions that the PF is the creation force of all realities of the multiverse, are we supposed to believe that as well despite everything else (which includes the Excalibur series itself) contradicts that? Not to mention the several times where Phoenix was "stated" to be the creator/destroyer of all reality? Also, several issues prior to that Galactus showing Rachel "strained her powers to the limit" just to contain a mini nuke. Just something to consider.
On a side note, i don't recall the Abraxas arc ever stating or even implying that the omniverse was at stake... Did i miss something?
Originally posted by zopzopThat bottom row is so very wrong.
I don't disagree with this, although I would put Love/Hate on the same level as Order/Chaos (like Starlin did).EDITed to include image.
Celestials on the same level as "Earth" gods? Galactus likewise. Galactus was originally the other side of Eternity before new characters were added in between but not to lower him THAT much. Chaos and Order you can make a case for since they created IB and he fought Galactus once, but Love and Hate...they empowered some princess once to maaaybe Silver surfer level (stretch) so she could get his attention. They have no feats to suggest they're that high
Originally posted by operator616
There is an Excalibur letter's page where the editor mentions that the PF is the creation force of all realities of the multiverse, are we supposed to believe that as well despite everything else (which includes the Excalibur series itself) contradicts that? Not to mention the several times where Phoenix was "stated" to be the creator/destroyer of all reality? Also, several issues prior to that Galactus showing Rachel "strained her powers to the limit" just to contain a mini nuke. Just something to consider.On a side note, i don't recall the Abraxas arc ever stating or even implying that the omniverse was at stake... Did i miss something?
meh, that's always the issue arguing the PF. there are tons of low showings. plot device will be plot device. but they happened and are hard to argue away. below the level of user incompetence though i think the force itself has been pretty firmly established as one of the most powerful forces in the universe (and depending on what you're willing to credit, perhaps the multiverse). rachel had dozens of conflicting showings, but (a) her highs are pretty damn good (her battle with necrom would have destroyed the universe), and, (b) i'm not talking about rachel's use of the PF, i'm talking about the force itself and the potential power it possess. rachel was crazy--inconsistent and imposed limits on herself much of the time.... that's why i specified only the highest showings to avoid the nonsense that would ensue otherwise. as far as accepting the narration--narration and other characters have been pretty consistent in describing the force over the years. but believe what you will i guess. the pf will always be controversial and difficult to gauge.
Abraxas' function is to destroy all creation, the omniverse.In the end, all that's left, is him, God over oblivion.
No UN, this is exactly what happens.
eh? the omniverse is quite a leap, as is the supposition that he would rule what was left over both death and/or oblivion. i would disagree with that completely. he was born of eternity--why would anyone consider him above him...? i've never been convinced he's definitively above galactus. he certainly didn't come off looking superior when g made his return--even went so far as to point out he had an ace up his sleeve (the un), pretty clearly implying he didn't feel too positive himself regarding his chances against 616 galactus. and obviously he also couldn't resist the UN, a power dismissed effortlessly by magus with his incomplete ig
he'd def be much further down my list.
Originally posted by leonidas
meh, that's always the issue arguing the PF. there are tons of low showings. plot device will be plot device. but they happened and are hard to argue away. below the level of user incompetence though i think the force itself has been pretty firmly established as one of the most powerful forces in the universe (and depending on what you're willing to credit, perhaps the multiverse). rachel had dozens of conflicting showings, but (a) her highs are pretty damn good (her battle with necrom would have destroyed the universe), and, (b) i'm not talking about rachel's use of the PF, i'm talking about the force itself and the potential power it possess. rachel was crazy--inconsistent and imposed limits on herself much of the time.... that's why i specified only the highest showings to avoid the nonsense that would ensue otherwise. as far as accepting the narration--narration and other characters have been pretty consistent in describing the force over the years. but believe what you will i guess. the pf will always be controversial and difficult to gauge.
I disagree.
In Excalibur #34 letter's page, the editor said that the Phoenix is the creation force behind not one, but all realities. Later in issue #51 of the same series, we see Phoenix being born from the big bang. Contradiction.
In FF #522, Reed equates the PF to the Big bang, yet 9 issues later in FF #531-532, we never see the PF being associated with the big bang in any way. Another Contradiction.
Just like in an issue of Ultimate X-Men it's stated that the Phoenix Force is the force behind the creation of the universe, yet later it's dissociated from the "force that created the Earth" and gets imprisoned/contained inside of the Earth. Yet another Contradiction.
Also, originally the Phoenix was conceived as a multiversal entity existing across the multiverse simultaneously, which is why we never saw an alternate version of Rachel as opposed to the other members of the Excalibur. This all changed later on.
Apart from all that, i recall at least three instances off the top of my head (from three different books, UXM First foursaken, X-Men The end, and X-Men True Friends) where the Phoenix force was stated to be the spark that ignites creation and the fire that consumes it. Needless to say, this is most definitely not true.
You call that consistent in describing the nature of the PF? Seems to me that PF has a lot of hyperbole surrounding it.
Also, i dont recall the Necrom battle being anything other than solar system level, the universe destroying part was just a statement as always. I dont remember Rachel being that impressive tbh. And yes she has other lows of course but i referenced this one in particular because it shows a clear limit.
Originally posted by leonidas
eh? the omniverse is quite a leap,
Roma is after all the "omniversal guardian" ... she knows reality on an omniversal scale.
Roma stated, the Eternity in this story, contained:
"All that Ever was, Ever is or Ever will be"
----------------------------------------
Roma stated, if Abraxas wins:
"All of Time will be lost to us." (herself included)
----------------------------------------
So, that's my justification.
Originally posted by leonidas
as is the supposition that he would rule what was left over both death and/or oblivion.i would disagree with that completely.
This is the implication we got from Abraxas' bio:
It makes sense, I mean he was on his way to destroying everything on panel until he was disturpted by the UN.
... and ONLY ... the UN (Ultimate Nullifier)
In the story it was made clear:
ONLY the Ultimate Nullifier > Abraxas: (that's why the FF took a journey across the multiverse looking for it) 👆
......................................................................................
Roma (Omniversal Guardian) ... On Panel:
Roma: "It will be a weapon of unimaginable power that will win this day"
......................................................................................
Here Galactus says it, and Reed realizes this truth:
Galactus: "But this time, this Day can end only one way"
Reed: "Yes .... God help me, I can see that now"
Originally posted by leonidas
he was born of eternity--why would anyone consider him above him...?
Originally posted by leonidas
i've never been convinced he's definitively above galactus.
he certainly didn't come off looking superior when g made his return--
even went so far as to point out he had an ace up his sleeve (the un),
pretty clearly implying he didn't feel too positive himself regarding his chances against 616 galactus.
The "ace up the sleeve" line has nothing to do with Abraxas ever intending to use the UN on G or anyone for that matter.
Abraxas only wanted the UN so it could not be used on him. That's what he was referring to with the "ace up the sleeve" line.
In other words, 'now that I have the ONLY thing that can beat me. there's no way you can win.'
In that scene:
Abraxas clearly mentioned how he was going to kill 616 G just like he killed his other selves across the multiverse.
Abraxas didn't have the UN ever in any other universe, so .. we know he killed other Galactuses under his own power.
Originally posted by leonidas
and obviously he also couldn't resist the UN, a power dismissed effortlessly by magus with his incomplete ig
Also, those are two different arcs written by two different writers separated by over a decade of time.
Also, the way you phrase it: "he couldn't resist the UN a power dismissed effortlessly by magus" ... 🙂
Since you're merging feats as relevant to each other ...
would you agree then?
... that Magus with the incomplete IG
dismissed effortlessly a power
that can instantaneously erase
and then re-create from nothingness
the entire trans-infinite Multiverse? (perhaps omniverse for that matter)
Originally posted by leonidas
meh, that's always the issue arguing the PF. there are tons of low showings. plot device will be plot device. but they happened and are hard to argue away. below the level of user incompetence though i think the force itself has been pretty firmly established as one of the most powerful forces in the universe (and depending on what you're willing to credit, perhaps the multiverse). rachel had dozens of conflicting showings, but (a) her highs are pretty damn good (her battle with necrom would have destroyed the universe), and, (b) i'm not talking about rachel's use of the PF, i'm talking about the force itself and the potential power it possess. rachel was crazy--inconsistent and imposed limits on herself much of the time.... that's why i specified only the highest showings to avoid the nonsense that would ensue otherwise. as far as accepting the narration--narration and other characters have been pretty consistent in describing the force over the years. but believe what you will i guess. the pf will always be controversial and difficult to gauge.eh? the omniverse is quite a leap, as is the supposition that he would rule what was left over both death and/or oblivion. i would disagree with that completely. he was born of eternity--why would anyone consider him above him...? i've never been convinced he's definitively above galactus. he certainly didn't come off looking superior when g made his return--even went so far as to point out he had an ace up his sleeve (the un), pretty clearly implying he didn't feel too positive himself regarding his chances against 616 galactus. and obviously he also couldn't resist the UN, a power dismissed effortlessly by magus with his incomplete ig
he'd def be much further down my list.
Don't mean to barge into your debate with Mr master
But the power of the UN actually varies depending on the mental capacity of the user plus it appeared to be his kryptonite.
Originally posted by operator616
I disagree.In Excalibur #34 letter's page, the editor said that the Phoenix is the creation force behind not one, but all realities. Later in issue #51 of the same series, we see Phoenix being born from the big bang. Contradiction.
pf is supposed to be reborn at every big bang. who is that a contradiction...?
In FF #522, Reed equates the PF to the Big bang, yet 9 issues later in FF #531-532, we never see the PF being associated with the big bang in any way. Another Contradiction.
again, if reed said it, why would they need to show it? you wanted what, a giant phoenix in the scene?
Just like in an issue of Ultimate X-Men it's stated that the Phoenix Force is the force behind the creation of the universe, yet later it's dissociated from the "force that created the Earth" and gets imprisoned/contained inside of the Earth. Yet another Contradiction.
depends on whether the author was assuming different forces. for instance gaea is said to be the originator of the force that allowed sentient life on earth. thor followers would claim it was a different force that created the earth. i don't find that any more conflicting than any of the other cosmological contradictions in marvel. we've seen beings create universes but no sign of a new eternity being born. so eternity isn't associated with the birth of a universe either?
Also, originally the Phoenix was conceived as a multiversal entity existing across the multiverse simultaneously, which is why we never saw an alternate version of Rachel as opposed to the other members of the Excalibur. This all changed later on.
which never made sense nor is it a contradiction. the pf can remain the same, but why wouldn't the host exist in other fashions? especially when in an alternate reality she never became one with the force?
Apart from all that, i recall at least three instances off the top of my head (from three different books, UXM First foursaken, X-Men The end, and X-Men True Friends) where the Phoenix force was stated to be the spark that ignites creation and the fire that consumes it. Needless to say, this is most definitely not true.
again, you seem to want a big bird to appear in every case a universe is made or unmade....that would never happen, especially given the divorce between x-men and the rest of marvel that existed for so many years. the x-men mythos was held almost completely separate for years and years. doesn't make it less legit. the separation of the x-men from the herd is what led to many of the contradictions you tried citing.
You call that consistent in describing the nature of the PF? Seems to me that PF has a lot of hyperbole surrounding it.
cool. i disagree. characters no less than reed, roma, galactus, the watcher and death have all said essentially the same thing regarding the pf and its relationship to the NATURAL cycle of creation and rebirth (how often have we seen universes NATURALLY end and restart in comics?) the pf was even established as having played a role in galactus's origin, showing the evolution of both the idea of the pf and the breaking of some of the barriers between the x-world and the rest of marvel. anyway, simply brushing off the words of some of marvel's greatest cosmics doesn't make much sense to me. especially in lieu of using the incompetence of the hosts and/or plot as a measure for lessening the force itself.
Also, i dont recall the Necrom battle being anything other than solar system level, the universe destroying part was just a statement as always. I dont remember Rachel being that impressive tbh. And yes she has other lows of course but i referenced this one in particular because it shows a clear limit. [/B]
again, you're simply dismissing rachel's words like you dismiss everyone else's. your mind seems pretty made up so what's the point? i've also specified this is the pf at the highest levels shown in comics--rachel is NOT the host to use (if a host is best used at all) to demonstrate what i'm trying to get at in this thread. i absolutely believe the pf has been consistently regarding, if not always consistently depicted in its various incarnations.
Originally posted by leonidas
characters no less than reed, roma, galactus, the watcher and death have all said essentially the same thing regarding the pf and its relationship to the NATURAL cycle of creation and rebirth
We've seen (On Panel) the "spark" of creation that initiates the Big Bang in action ...
NO PF of any kind in the vicinity or even hinted from afar.
We've seen creation (the prime Multiverse) end naturally
and restart naturally in its elf-perpetuating death/rebirth cycle ...
... NO PF of any kind in the vicinity or even hunted from afar.
Originally posted by leonidas
how often have we seen universes NATURALLY end and restart in comics?
The natural death of creation was depicted, along with the actual true natural Big Bang.
... NO PF of any kind in the vicinity or even hinted from afar.
Originally posted by leonidas
the pf was even established as having played a role in galactus's origin.
Galactus' origin has been artistically portrayed at-least 7 times on panel ...
... NO PF of any kind in the vicinity or even hinted from afar.
Im sure opr has the rest.
Originally posted by Mr Master
True, the actual term "omniverse " wasn't stated,
but I'm of the opinion that the "multiverse" in this story, was a term defining "The Everything."Roma is after all the "omniversal guardian" ... she knows reality on an omniversal scale.
[b]Roma stated
, the Eternity in this story, contained:"All that Ever was, Ever is or Ever will be"
----------------------------------------
Roma stated, if Abraxas wins:
"All of Time will be lost to us." (herself included)
----------------------------------------
So, that's my justification.[/b]
i know your justification, i just don't know why you switched terms. omniverse sounds more....grandiose? it was the multiverse that was collapsing. no need to say more than that.
I understand your doubt my old friend, but you know me, I only make direct claims when I have support.This is the implication we got from Abraxas' bio:
It makes sense, I mean he was on his way to destroying everything on panel until he was disturpted by the UN.
did you just say you have 'direct' proof then claim an IMPLICATION based on a BIO? 😐
beyond that, that bio makes absolutely no sense and seems to completely contradict the role abraxas appeared to have been assigned. he was (apparently) going to destroy the multiverse. where in any of that arc was it said that he was attempting to collapse the multiverse into his dream of one single perfect universe? he also wasn't erasing universes. i thought it clear he was merging them, breaking down walls. if he erased a universe in that arc i don't recall it and would love to see.... that bio literally goes against nearly every single thing that was shown in that arc.
... and ONLY ... the UN (Ultimate Nullifier)In the story it was made clear:
ONLY the Ultimate Nullifier > Abraxas: (that's why the FF took a journey across the multiverse looking for it) 👆
......................................................................................
Roma (Omniversal Guardian) ... On Panel:
Roma: "It will be a weapon of unimaginable power that will win this day"
......................................................................................
roma's narration is dramatic. but she seems to know as little about the UN as she does about the PF.
Here Galactus says it, and Reed realizes this truth:Galactus: "But this time, this Day can end only one way"
not sure what you're trying to prove here. the UN was needed and it was used. but we had an idea before hand what it could do. this use of the UN is wildly outside it's typical level of power. reed has also been wrong on many occasions and prone to hyperbole. again, see the PF. (i know it sounds like sour grapes the way i bring that up--it isn't. i'm just illustrating how easy it can be to dismiss the words of characters. no offense intended to either of you.)
Yur jokin right?
noooo..... if he was born of the power of eternity, why would he be MORE powerful? i've always seen him as a type of cancer that exists within eternity. just because eternity has no defense against him (a rule apparently established at the birth of creation) doesn't mean he is necessarily more powerful than eternity. or death. or oblivion. in fact, we have no clue at all all he would rate in relation to either death or eternity.
Abraxas jobbed when 616 G first appeared.
jobbed? damn, i should have used that more in my response to op. anyway, i don't see it as jobbing at all.
The "ace up the sleeve" line has nothing to do with Abraxas ever intending to use the UN on G or anyone for that matter.
Abraxas only wanted the UN so it could not be used on him. That's what he was referring to with the "ace up the sleeve" line.
In other words, 'now that I have the ONLY thing that can beat me. there's no way you can win.'
sure he said that, but....we still never saw him kill any galactus, nor did we see him fight galactus. again, he sure didn't appear to be all that confident against him, and jobbing aside, we really didn't see him battle anyone of note. were he actually next to lt in power, pretty sure he wouldn't have had to show any fear of galactus. he probably would have been able to get the un back as well. it's like galactus stole his lunch money and he couldn't do anything about it. you can call pis, but like dismissing characters' words, that is too easy. imo.
In that scene:Abraxas clearly mentioned how he was going to kill 616 G just like he killed his other selves across the multiverse.
mentioned. didn't.
Abraxas didn't have the UN ever in any other universe, so .. we know he killed other Galactuses under his own power.
no, actually we don't. it's not an illogical assumption, but off-panel is off-panel. we also have no idea how powerful these other galactus's were. perhaps he simply caught them when they were weak and getting ready to feed. we have no idea since we never saw it happen, even once. given how he reacted to 616 galactus, it is also not illogical to suppose there might have been some context to those defeats.
Magus and his incomplete IG still made him a monster.Also, those are two different arcs written by two different writers separated by over a decade of time.
Also, the way you phrase it: "he couldn't resist the UN a power dismissed effortlessly by magus" ... 🙂
Since you're merging feats as relevant to each other ...
would you agree then?
... that Magus with the incomplete IG
dismissed effortlessly a power
that can instantaneously erase
and then re-create from nothingness
the entire trans-infinite Multiverse? (perhaps omniverse for that matter) [/B]
sure. how can it be disagreed with? 😕 which would lead to the assumption that magus w/ig>>>abraxas. there are quite a few abc logic trains that can be followed from that supposition....
Originally posted by Mr Master
Hyperbole.
irony?
We've seen (On Panel) the "spark" of creation that initiates the Big Bang in action ...NO PF of any kind in the vicinity or even hinted from afar.
We've seen creation (the prime Multiverse) end naturally
and restart naturally in its elf-perpetuating death/rebirth cycle ...
... NO PF of any kind in the vicinity or even hunted from afar.Captain Marvel #5-6 ... Entropy story line.
The natural death of creation was depicted, along with the actual true natural Big Bang.
again, you want a big bird to show up? what can i say? there are so many references to the pf and creation that dismissing it makes no sense at all.
100% pure bull shit! ... not you old friend, the idea.Galactus' origin has been artistically portrayed at-least 7 times on panel ...
... NO PF of any kind in the vicinity or even hinted from afar.
Im sure opr has the rest. [/B]
cool, but, as you've told countless people, sounds like you have a problem with marvel. you can dislike it all you want--we don't make the rules. hand-waving the idea away doesn't make it go away or make it less true. /shrug
i trust you can see where the whole picking/choosing/dismissing/hand-waving can be a problem in both directions.
Originally posted by leonidas
pf is supposed to be reborn at every big bang. who is that a contradiction...?
The editor claimed that PF is one of the creative forces of the multiverse, yet later on it is born from the big bang. If it was indeed a creative force it should be the one who initiates the big bang not be born from it.
How is this not contradictory?
Originally posted by leonidas
again, if reed said it, why would they need to show it? you wanted what, a giant phoenix in the scene?
Well yes. Either way, do you actually believe that the PF = big bang? But wait.
You're saying that the PF is the psionic energy of the multiverse (your own scan)
yet its also the big bang (according to Reed),
yet its also born from the big bang (according to Excalibur),
yet it is also the spark that initiates the big bang (according to various others). 😂
And all of this is not contradictory to you? Seriously?
Originally posted by leonidas
depends on whether the author was assuming different forces. for instance gaea is said to be the originator of the force that allowed sentient life on earth. thor followers would claim it was a different force that created the earth. i don't find that any more conflicting than any of the other cosmological contradictions in marvel. we've seen beings create universes but no sign of a new eternity being born. so eternity isn't associated with the birth of a universe either?
That story about the elder gods is actually pretty consistent and has been mentioned in at least three titles that i recall of (Thor, Silver Surfer, Dr Strange).The pantheon creation stories were mostly present in the early comics only (up until the 80s), after that they were forgotten and some were even retconned to be false memories implanted by Odin about the creation myths. Although admittedly they were still referenced later on in the thor mythos but they were just limited to that, and not mentioned or even hinted in other titles.
We've seen Eternity depicted several times with the creation of the universe, we've never seen PF even once, see the difference? Also, Eternity is the universe so it isn't contradictory when we don't see Eternity in humanoid form on panel when a creation story is depicted. Same thing cannot be said of the PF because it's a goddamn fire bird.
Originally posted by leonidas
which never made sense nor is it a contradiction. the pf can remain the same, but why wouldn't the host exist in other fashions? especially when in an alternate reality she never became one with the force?
Because back in the day there was only one phoenix force across the multiverse. So the PF can possess only one host in the multiverse and that host was Rachel at the time. And Rachel herself had no alternate versions across the multiverse (this has been confirmed time and time again).
Originally posted by leonidas
again, you seem to want a big bird to appear in every case a universe is made or unmade....that would never happen, especially given the divorce between x-men and the rest of marvel that existed for so many years. the x-men mythos was held almost completely separate for years and years. doesn't make it less legit. the separation of the x-men from the herd is what led to many of the contradictions you tried citing.cool. i disagree. characters no less than reed, roma, galactus, the watcher and death have all said essentially the same thing regarding the pf and its relationship to the NATURAL cycle of creation and rebirth (how often have we seen universes NATURALLY end and restart in comics?) the pf was even established as having played a role in galactus's origin, showing the evolution of both the idea of the pf and the breaking of some of the barriers between the x-world and the rest of marvel. anyway, simply brushing off the words of some of marvel's greatest cosmics doesn't make much sense to me. especially in lieu of using the incompetence of the hosts and/or plot as a measure for lessening the force itself.
Why do you keep talking about x-men being dissociated from the rest of Marvel? This applies to every title in the early comics era, both DC and Marvel, they were much more self-contained than comics nowadays obviously. And im not sure how that is relevant anyway given that the Phoenix force concept wasn't introduced until the mid 80s, a time when crossovers were ubiquitous. So there shouldn't be an excuse why PF isn't depicted because of X-Men's dissociation from rest of the titles.
Originally posted by leonidas
again, you're simply dismissing rachel's words like you dismiss everyone else's. your mind seems pretty made up so what's the point? i've also specified this is the pf at the highest levels shown in comics--rachel is NOT the host to use (if a host is best used at all) to demonstrate what i'm trying to get at in this thread. i absolutely believe the pf has been consistently regarding, if not always consistently depicted in its various incarnations.
My mind isn't made up at all and i could say the same thing about you. If there wasn't so much contradiction and hyperbole surrounding the PF i wouldn't be dismissing her words. But fair enough on the rest part.
