Count Dooku and Mace Windu vs Darth Sidious

Started by JKBart5 pages
JKBart Restricted

Kurk are u seriously spending ur time on this

learn to code or ravage some muslim on a street

Azronger Azronger Reborn

Sorry, I though you were responding to me, Kurk.

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by Darth Thor
"Yoda is more powerful I fully agree but he isn't more formidable."- quanchi112

Retardation at its finest.

Yoda's mastered every Lightsaber form, has superior mastery of TK, and is more powerful in the Force. So no Windu's not more formidable LMAO

There were differences in the environment and starting factors for both Yoda vs Palpatine and Windu vs Palpatine, so you can't just go by the result of those to compare Windu to Yoda (unless of course you're a Troll).

Facts are facts, and everything I've stated about Yoda are also facts come directly from canon source books.

Greater power doesn't equate more formidable. If it did Yoda would have beaten Dooku. 😂

Double standards are double standards. You're trying to make excuses to ignore the facts. Hyperbole is hyperbole. Yoda being more powerful didn't help him stomp Dooku. Did it ?

😂

The Ellimist The Shadow

^ Maul lost to a padawan.

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by MythLord
Sheev seems convinced Dooku + Asajj have the potential to overthrow him... Although he's just a paranoid megalomaniac, so I wouldn't trust his opinion.

Yeah, Sidious takes this.

He lost to Windu you fanatic. Watch the films since you obviously haven't.

darthbane77 Senior Member

Originally posted by quanchi112
Every fight is circumstantial this isn't a brand new concept exclusive to their fight. You're using double standards because you're upset Windu won. You're so upset you also believe Palpatine threw it despite no direct evidence supporting this fan prone theory.
Every fight does have varying factors, but it's not every time that there's an entirely unique factor like there was in the ROTS film and Novelization. Every source I provided confirms that Yoda is superior to Windu and that Sidious is superior to Yoda, the quotes confirm it; that's the end of it. They also confirm how circumstantial Windu's victory was, that the fact he was fighting for the Republic's very survival was the reason his Vapaad worked so well against Sidious in their fight. Vapaad has NEVER worked that well against anybody else, but as soon as Windu was put into those particular circumstances, it worked. Honestly, I'm about done with this. I've proven my point time and again in this debate, I've provided sources and quotes to prove my point. You haven't provided so much as rational argument, your comments have been devoid of fact, highly opinionated, and totally unsubstantiated throughout the entirety of this "debate." Anybody with two eyes and brain can see how poor and sorry a debater you are, it's really very pathetic that you're this bad at it.

Darth Thor Senior Member
Originally posted by darthbane77
and that Sidious is superior to Yoda, the quotes confirm it;

No.

darthbane77 Senior Member

Originally posted by Darth Thor
No.
Yes.

Darth Thor Senior Member
Originally posted by darthbane77
Yes.

https://jedi-bibliothek.de/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/9781368003063-final-2.jpg

Yoda:

"After Palpatine fought him to a standstill Yoda retreated into exile."

McP Senior Member
Originally posted by Darth Thor
The boards have gone a bit Vader cuckoo recently

Corrected.

But yes, to be sure, I also think, that Sidious is a bit overated. He would take 10/10 against either Windu or Dooku in single combat, but he wont beat them both at once. I'm even wondering, if Windu really needs to amp himself on Palpatine.

Duo takes this.

Darth Thor Senior Member

Originally posted by McP
Corrected.

Dude it's not the boards that have suddenly increased their wank over Vader for no apparent reason. It's the creators of the new Canon that have done that, and made it clear that's intentional.

On the boards there's actually still quite a few people lowballing Vader, and many more giving him less credit than he deserves.

Originally posted by McP

But yes, to be sure, I also think, that Sidious is a bit overated. He would take 10/10 against either Windu or Dooku in single combat, but he wont beat them both at once. I'm even wondering, if Windu really needs to amp himself on Palpatine.

Duo takes this.

Not sure how you can say 10/10 against Windu, when Windu has already taken 1/1. But I do think Palpatine would take the large majority against Windu, 10/10 against Dooku, but lose against both.

quanchi112 Disney

If the creators went cuckoo for Vader wouldn't he handily best Kanan and Ezra. He didn't. He didn't even handily beat Tano. It's a myth Vader's position improved supported by vague statements not the evidence itself. The evidence is what matters not some ign interview.

McP Senior Member

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Dude it's not the boards that have suddenly increased their wank over Vader for no apparent reason. It's the creators of the new Canon that have done that, and made it clear that's intentional.

Not at all. They gave him some hype, but screwed his showings anyway. He was in fact Force pushed by Ezra and Kanan. He could be distracted, but being Force pushed by a fighters of Kanan's and Ezra's caliber.. it's just shame. Ahsoka wasn't impressive at all in her las episode, and yet, she gave him a really good fight.
Dooku was in very similar situation, when he was distract by Pykes, and he was able to effortlessly evade Anakin and Obi-Wan's combined Force push.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Not sure how you can say 10/10 against Windu, when Windu has already taken 1/1. But I do think Palpatine would take the large majority against Windu, 10/10 against Dooku, but lose against both.

I meant all-out. It's confirmed by Lucas, that Palpatine threw lightning part of battle. And Mace was struggling hard at the end.
And even Mace's superior in every category, Yoda, couldn't beat Sidious in all-out.

Darth Thor Senior Member
Originally posted by McP
Not at all. They gave him some hype, but screwed his showings anyway. He was in fact Force pushed by Ezra and Kanan. He could be distracted, but being Force pushed by a fighters of Kanan's and Ezra's caliber.. it's just shame. Ahsoka wasn't impressive at all in her las episode, and yet, she gave him a really good fight.
Dooku was in very similar situation, when he was distract by Pykes, and he was able to effortlessly evade Anakin and Obi-Wan's combined Force push.

Oh dude come on. So what if he was Force pushed while distracted. The push added to the chicken walker falling on him still did absolutely nothing, and Kanan/Ezra still ran for their lives admitting they can't even compete with this guy.

Vader also could have EASILY killed Kanan when he grabbed hold of him but just threw him aside instead, proving he just wasn't taking the fight very seriously. So very different to Dooku facing great elite Jedi such as Anakin and Obi-Wan.

The hypes real. Crushing AT-AT's is the "biggest" TK feat we've seen in Canon. He even redirected torpedoes shot at him from X-Wings with his TK, and Crushed X-Wings with boulders. Just totally Totally Insane stuff.

Maul's already admitted inferiority to him. The creators have confirmed Maul would die if he faced Vader. Filoni's confirmed that's the way Lucas wanted it because he never wanted Vader lowballed in any way.

Ahsoka was on par with Maul and Vader soundly defeated her.

Originally posted by McP

I meant all-out. It's confirmed by Lucas, that Palpatine threw lightning part of battle. And Mace was struggling hard at the end.
And even Mace's superior in every category, Yoda, couldn't beat Sidious in all-out.

Yeah but Mace could have already killed Palpatine before the Lightning started.

Yoda and Mace's fight were both very different. Yoda faced the full extent of Palpatine's powers in that senate room.

Rebel95 Senior Member

Team. (assuming this is ROTS Sidious)

McP Senior Member

Originally posted by Darth Thor
The hypes real. Crushing AT-AT's is the "biggest" TK feat we've seen in Canon. He even redirected torpedoes shot at him from X-Wings with his TK, and Crushed X-Wings with boulders. Just totally Totally Insane stuff.

Not at all. In Legends (which were a canon in the past) we also could see some awesome things, like Mace's TK in CW > everything that Sidious ever done with TK.
There are some exaggerated feats, depends of the source. Sometimes it's hard to judge, some sources seems to be really believable. But that might be only an ilusion. Savage's feats from TCWS3 are clearly wrong, yet they are still a canon. There are statements, that he became even stronger... and you know what? If not his duels with Kenobi and Maul, if we could only see him facing Sidious, with another statements like "he became more powerful", "he's stronger and stronger(...)" etc, we should could assume, that he would stomp Obi-Wan or Anakin... or he would be able to kill Dooku.
But that's all wrong.

Vader, to prove that those statements are rightful, needs to prove them in battles. He has statements, that nearly puts him in the same league with Sidious. But his TK is nowhere near of that of Sidious. Sidious or Yoda could stomp people of Maul's, Opress', Ventress, Kenobi's level. Vader couldn't. If he could, he wouldn't leave Malachor looking like a barely walking pathetic "half-droid half-man".

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Oh dude come on. So what if he was Force pushed while distracted. The push added to the chicken walker falling on him still did absolutely nothing, and Kanan/Ezra still ran for their lives admitting they can't even compete with this guy.

Yeah, he was distracted, because his perception is below average. He might be extremely powerful, but he's not a good fighter at all.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Filoni's confirmed that's the way Lucas wanted it because he never wanted Vader lowballed in any way.

Lol. That seem just to be a lie. Lucas is the one, that is fully responsible for lowballing Vader. Lucas himself stated, that Ben is just an old man, Vader is a crippled half-droid half-man, and Luke is some inexperienced guy who is learning from those people.
Maul, Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan's era was stated to be prime era of warriors. Let alone AOTC and ROTS. It's also a Lucas who is responsible for SW timeline. Because of Lucas Ben, who looks like eighty years old, is in fact about sixty? And Qui-Gon is sixty as well? Lucas could say: they fought in a close quarters, they had no space for acrobatics, or their techniques were far more advanced and they only looked that bad. He could say, that's because of limitations, they could not show their fights properly. Instead of that, he said what he said, and lowballed them more then I could ever have.
And do not forget, that in Legends, Luke could contend with Vader. Perhaps he couln't be able to win, if Vader would really want to kill him, perhaps he wasn't ready. But he could compete. A guy, who - like Filoni said - is below Jedi Council from PT. Yeah, Filoni is really a reliable source.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Maul's already admitted inferiority to him.

He was at that point. In my opinion he past his prime, but we'll see soon.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah but Mace could have already killed Palpatine before the Lightning started.

Yeah, except that Sidious already show us, that he's able to use his lightning to disarm people... superior to Mace. And he still had his superior TK. He wasn't like Dooku, you know, handless...

You shouldn't say anything about wanking Sidious. If Vader is as powerful as you think he is, then Sidious is as powerful as his wankers think he is. He stomped B-team with a Mace presence. He stomped Savage and Maul, while Vader couln't even best Ahsoka (in fact, he only overhelmed her) and Ben. Vader's other showings are irrelevant. He has no good showings against other Force users. He could have. They could make OM Maul as really powerful, like Dooku or even more. And then Vader would best him or killed him. But for now Maul looks to be pathetic. Killing him wont be a great showing for Vader.
They can also prove, that Ben is prime version of Kenobi. But, I guess, they wont.

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by The Ellimist
^ Maul lost to a padawan.
Maul had him beaten but Tano got involved. He was overconfident and fell off a cliff. Nothing to be overly dramatic about.

quanchi112 Disney

MCP caved D. Thor's ******* in.

The Ellimist The Shadow
Originally posted by quanchi112
Maul had him beaten but Tano got involved. He was overconfident and fell off a cliff. Nothing to be overly dramatic about.

It's interesting that you make excuses for Maul, but not for anyone else.

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by The Ellimist
It's interesting that you make excuses for Maul, but not for anyone else.
I do the same for all. I can't stand Windu but don't excuse Palpatine's loss. Windu is one of the most boring Jedi or Sith IMO yet I give him the due he deserves. I am the same with all Star Wars characters.