Captain Marvel (Billy) vs. Silver Surfer

The problem with Surfer and Thor is that they are very versatile but speed PREVENTS their versatility. It converts them to brawlers and blasters. That's why it makes perfect sense that Surfer blasts mostly against his peers.

Originally posted by tkitna
Yeah, sure does.

http://static8.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125241/3044866-8435871039-29884.jpg

http://cbr3.imgix.net/wp-content/uploads/imglib/bannercure8a-56fe4.jpg?auto=format&lossless=1&q=40&w=700&h=1046&fit=crop

http://fdzeta.com/subir/images/2UeA.jpg

http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/2/29361/671478-ashley.jpg

http://store.donanimhaber.com/b7/09/19/b709196b89657d80b4fa46b0380aaa47.jpg
http://store.donanimhaber.com/a3/09/54/a30954ab38edca857f10031e575605fd.jpg

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/images/attachment/here-drlight-tags-superman-and-states-that-even-hes-not-ftl-4920.jpg

As a courtesy, here's a few scans of those cosmic blasts that don't seem to have any effect on anybody.

http://store.donanimhaber.com/ff/0a/c0/ff0ac06910913dcf415921ca30a13443.jpg

http://store.donanimhaber.com/d9/04/db/d904db62aff70ccce69128fb9f1d0603.jpg

http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Silver-Surfer-1987/Issue-125?id=11599#35

http://store.donanimhaber.com/64/b0/6c/64b06ce05863a7f667ab1a8fea855391.jpg

Hulk again is weak in the durability department. His Hf is what makes him equals to top tiers. WM is not a top tier. Like I said, Surfer's blasts are fodder against his peers.

Originally posted by tkitna
Here's Thor falling before it.

http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Silver-Surfer-1968/Issue-4?id=44914#44

Regardless of cosmic blasts, Surfer could just probably gaze at him and have him stop fighting altogether or do whatever.

http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Silver-Surfer-1968/Issue-5?id=44915#14

http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Silver-Surfer-1968/Issue-12?id=44905#28
http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Silver-Surfer-1968/Issue-12?id=44905#29

He can also use the environment around him as weapons.
http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Silver-Surfer-1968/Issue-14?id=44907#24

I was going to go on and post a bunch of stuff, but whats the point? Its late and I'm tired and it wont get us anywhere anyways. I don't think Billy can beat him,,,,ever. I'm never going to believe it so lets just agree to disagree

All that other stuff is irrelevant since Surfer is going to be a typical blaster in this fight. CM is fast enough to prevent Surfer from doing anything exotic.

Originally posted by h1a8
The problem with Surfer and Thor is that they are very versatile but speed PREVENTS their versatility. It converts them to brawlers and blasters. That's why it makes perfect sense that Surfer blasts mostly against his peers.

Hulk again is weak in the durability department. His Hf is what makes him equals to top tiers. WM is not a top tier. Like I said, Surfer's blasts are fodder against his peers.

Surfer was amped against Thor. Also current showings>>>>>past showings. More currently Surfer's blasts didn't do much to Thor.

All that other stuff is irrelevant since Surfer is going to be a typical blaster in this fight. CM is fast enough to prevent Surfer from doing anything exotic.

Lol idiocy

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Except nobody knows if it works.

Because Surfer has never done it.

Flash has done IMps. Has spammed them. (against AM). Mids has BFRd people into space.

So we know it works.

If you have a scan, from Surfers ENTIRE 60year history, of him scanning someone for their weakness, and then actually doing it....feel free.

Except there were many times in his shared history with the jla where his imp spamming could have saved the day and he did NOT use even 1.Do we even know for sure it CAN be spammed?

Against the Anti Monitor. Wally was punching him so hard, his armour was exploding. Multiple times.

He was also doing so, so quickly, none of the other characters (Pre Crisis, no less) were unable to see what was happening.

The IMP is just a punch thrown at extremely high speeds. So to say Flash couldn't use it multiple times..what you are in essence saying is that you feel the Flash has stamina that is so far below average that he can only throw a single punch before getting tired.

Remember, when he IMPd that White Martian...an important note must be made:

Prior to it, they were running LAPS around the world. Wally speeds up, and LAPS the WM. Just imagine how insanely fast that was....the two guys were already running so quickly, the world was stood still. And Wally then went even faster still.

Surtur, the argument being made is that even if someone has never done something, we need to give them the benefit of the doubt. Flash is being used as an example.

Problem is, he has actually done it before. So apples to oranges.

Originally posted by abhilegend
We also know Superman can cancel characters existence with a single musical note and he has actually done it.

Fair to say he remove everyone from existence right out of the bat with a musical note, eh?

Surfer has never done half the things Surfer fans bring up. Hence, fanfic Surfer.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, when Krosakis had absorbed his power.

Also when Surfer went against Dr Spectrum who has a weakness to ultraviolet radiation. Guess what he did.

Not weakness exploitation.

When did Surfer used different radiation on Hulk? In fact when has he ever used different radiation on someone?

He most certainly did use weakness exploitation against Spectrum. Not the ultraviolet thing, but he screwed up Spectrum's ring with a single blast. If anything that fight further indicates that weakness exploitation IS in character for Surfer.

In the scan tkitna posted where he's blasting the Hulk and the Hulk's screaming "You're killing me". You know... the one you already acknowledged as being a feat of energy manipulation rather than raw power.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I name it as a tactic, if there is a 100% chance he loses a straight physical fight.

Because of the nature of his powers. If there's no way he wins fisticuffs, then he uses doors. If every single scenario he runs leads to a loss, then...guess what, its a pretty stupid battle computer if he runs them all, and still decides to go h2h.

And see back to my IMP punch. Flash processes scenarios at light speed. How stupid is Barry/Wally to not do something in a forum fight if it works?

IF IT WORKS. That's the key phrase. At least they have done it, even if once, and it worked. How many times has Surfer analysed an opponent for weaknesses and acted on it? He's been around since the 60s....that's nearly 60 YEARS of continuous canon to draw on. Midnighter has been around since the 2000s or so...at least he's done it.

@jay: A far cry....because no one has stood up to a single IMP. Hell, you could argue he spammed IMPs against the Anti Monitor, if you want. He breaks it out against the big guns.

Originally posted by darthgoober
He's messed with Hulk's gamma, overloaded Firelord, screwed up Dr. Spectrum's ring, thrown Wonderman's Ionic energy out of phase, screwed up the electrical impulses in Vision, overloaded Krosakis, timetraveled to prevent the birth of Overlord, BFR'd multiple opponents, transmuted multiple opponents, "turned off" multiple opponent's powers, and screwed up Jack of Heart's energy. Tactically exploiting weaknesses/vulnerabilities in his opponents is something that Surfer has an established history of doing.

NONE of these characters have displayed Superman's ability to resist his energy being drained and his kryptonite weakness being exploited.

Superman>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marvel Rabble

Originally posted by darthgoober
He's messed with Hulk's gamma, overloaded Firelord, screwed up Dr. Spectrum's ring, thrown Wonderman's Ionic energy out of phase, screwed up the electrical impulses in Vision, overloaded Krosakis, timetraveled to prevent the birth of Overlord, BFR'd multiple opponents, transmuted multiple opponents, "turned off" multiple opponent's powers, and screwed up Jack of Heart's energy. Tactically exploiting weaknesses/vulnerabilities in his opponents is something that Surfer has an established history of doing.

So you have scans of Surfer analysing someone for their weaknesses, and then acting on it?

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
[b]NONE of these characters have displayed Superman's ability to resist his energy being drained and his kryptonite weakness being exploited.

Superman>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marvel Rabble [/B]

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So you have scans of Surfer analysing someone for their weaknesses, and then acting on it?

I just haven't seen it, that's all.

Maybe carver has them. He was going to rep Surfer in a recent tourney, so I bet he's got loads of Surfer scans that he collected himself.

My mindset? I'm just asking for an example of Surfer scanning someone, determining their weakness, and acting on it. That's all. IOW, the very thing he's said to be able to do against Billy.

Edit: as someone wiser than me (and probably more handsome) said:

Originally posted by carver9
Scans of him doing something like this. We don't make up fts on KMC.

Originally posted by darthgoober
That's a totally different discussion. This discussion is about whether or not it's "in character" for Surfer to exploit weaknesses in his opponents.

BAH!!!!

Stop using , Carver, as a human-shield and defend the Glinting Bastard in the Surfer Killer thread.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I just haven't seen it, that's all.

Maybe carver has them. He was going to rep Surfer in a recent tourney, so I bet he's got loads of Surfer scans that he collected himself.

My mindset? I'm just asking for an example of Surfer scanning someone, determining their weakness, and acting on it. That's all. IOW, the very thing he's said to be able to do against Billy.

Edit: as someone wiser than me (and probably more handsome) said:

And with Captain Marvel... there's not even any specific vulnerabilities to detect anyway. I mean, the lack of oxygen is actually kinda up in the air(no pun intended) because there are conflicting showings in regards to his dependence.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And with Captain Marvel... there's not even any specific vulnerabilities to detect anyway.

This is why Norrin suffers a brutal KO at the hands of Marvel!

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So you have scans of Surfer analysing someone for their weaknesses, and then acting on it?

Are you asking if he's like Karnak?

Originally posted by darthgoober
They don't make a show of Surfer scanning opponents, he just "knows"... even when he's never encountered the being in question. He showed in the Glad's scene that he can detect such a weakness, and he's shown in other in other instances that he's willing to act on such a thing. That's why I compare it all to Flash's ability/inclination to throw mulitple IMP, because the only reason to say that he wouldn't is the fact that it hasn't been specifically preformed on panel in an "on the nose" fashion.

So all you had to say was, no, there is no such scan of Surfer doing such a thing.

Logic is fine and all, so let's keep going.

Logically, the Hulk can run at lightspeed, because his strength has no limit, and in a humanoid like him, the legs are the strongest part of the body.

Logically, the Hulk can also fly, by helicoptering his arms and spinning really strongly. I mean, he weighs what, 1000lbs? And his arm span is like 6 feet? Am sure some of the physicists here can calculate how much power he needs to exert - but considering some of his high end feats, that power would be negligible.

Yet, if I were to say Hulk spins like a helicopter at lightspeed and runs at lightspeed etc (or at least, speeds approaching that) I would be laughed off this forum.

But, it's logical. His arms are capable of providing XYZ amount of force, and his legs look more muscular, so logically...

But it's a tangent. If there exists no proof of Surfer scanning someone, finding out their weakness and then acting on it...well, like carv said, we can't just make it up if it doesn't exist.

And as for spamming IMPs, well, like I said, Flash can do ONE IMP. Then another, discrete IMP. And another.

Or if you want scans of him spamming multiple powerful punches:

Pre Crisis characters, with all of their feats, were unable to even see him. And this was a more powerful version of the AM, to boot.

Originally posted by tkitna
Are you asking if he's like Karnak?

Basically, has he ever gone beyond this:

And actually gone through with it?

To use the Hulk (again, lol) - how many times has an opponent said: 'finally, you now meet my ultimate weapon, and your ultimate doom! I have designed a weapon that can destroy even you!'

And then the whole thing falls to pieces when all is said and done>

Doesn't even have to be the Hulk. Anyone else. Lex with Supes. Joker and his 'ultimate traps' against Batman. Those kinda things.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So all you had to say was, no, there is no such scan of Surfer doing such a thing.

Logic is fine and all, so let's keep going.

Logically, the Hulk can run at lightspeed, because his strength has no limit, and in a humanoid like him, the legs are the strongest part of the body.

Logically, the Hulk can also fly, by helicoptering his arms and spinning really strongly. I mean, he weighs what, 1000lbs? And his arm span is like 6 feet? Am sure some of the physicists here can calculate how much power he needs to exert - but considering some of his high end feats, that power would be negligible.

Yet, if I were to say Hulk spins like a helicopter at lightspeed and runs at lightspeed etc (or at least, speeds approaching that) I would be laughed off this forum.

But, it's logical. His arms are capable of providing XYZ amount of force, and his legs look more muscular, so logically...

But it's a tangent. If there exists no proof of Surfer scanning someone, finding out their weakness and then acting on it...well, like carv said, we can't just make it up if it doesn't exist.

And as for spamming IMPs, well, like I said, Flash can do ONE IMP. Then another, discrete IMP. And another.

Or if you want scans of him spamming multiple powerful punches:

Pre Crisis characters, with all of their feats, were unable to even see him. And this was a more powerful version of the AM, to boot.

While strength and muscle speed are connected(which would explain why speedsters sometimes have difficulty dodging his blows), they're not necessarily proportionate(especially in comics since Flash would be stronger than Supes) so it's a logical fallacy to say that Hulk can move at light speed.

As for Marvel not going to the trouble of spelling out the whole scan/execute scene... they really don't have to when Surfer knws about and exploits people's weaknesses WITHOUT showing him scanning for them. And to use your common sense approach to Flash doing 1 IMP then another, Surfer simply detects the weakness(as he's shown) and then exploits it. It's not a stretch OR out of character.

And just because they're super speed punches doesn't mean they're necessarily high mass IMP's. The speed force is quirky that way. Also, while they are pre crisis characters, it should be noted that PC characters were toned down even before COIE happened. Supes hadn't been written at his heights for years before Crisis from what I've heard from Pr. That's not to downplay the feat because it's obviously still impressive, it's just to say that Supes hadn't been written at his "creation destroying speeds" in years at that point.