Odin vs Thanos/Darkseid

Originally posted by darthgoober
See that's totally different, that's what you should have brought up earlier. Although it still changes what happened in that alternate timeline which basically throws doubts on the feats being admissable since they didn't actually happen. By the same token, King Thor changing time so that his reign means that feats from other characters in the arc aren't admissable even though all he was doing was changing the 616 timeline. And of course abhi brings up this kind of thing to point out that the Defenders feats from the time they took over the world aren't admissable lol.

I thought you read it. That's why I said maybe you should reread the story a few times. 😬 doesn't change the alternate timeline. They just took out old DS before he could do the summoning and time collapse in their present day (future for us).

Not really. It still happened. Only difference is they reset it but we still got a true representation of old ds and young ds fight prior to the reset. Doesn't mean prior reset wasn't valid or can use it as a reference as time was restored and young DS was unaffected

Originally posted by abhilegend
Marvel time travel rules are different from DC time travel rules.

Not hard to understand.

Now could you provide us a proof that Legion of Superheroes is an alternate reality?

Originally posted by -K-M-
I thought you read it. That's why I said maybe you should reread the story a few times. 😬 doesn't change the alternate timeline. They just took out old DS before he could do the summoning and time collapse in their present day (future for us).

Not really. It still happened. Only difference is they reset it but we still got a true representation of old ds and young ds fight prior to the reset. Doesn't mean prior reset wasn't valid or can use it as a reference as time was restored and young DS was unaffected

Originally posted by darthgoober
You're funny abhi lol

Concession accepted again.

Now could you provide us a proof that Legion of Superheroes is an alternate reality?

Originally posted by darthgoober
It's still an alternate timeline that "our" version of DS hasn't experienced yet. I'm not saying it's excluded by way of logic/reason I'm saying it's excluded by way of forum rules because it's an alternate timeline.

Which allows for special circumstances.

Multiversity has said all DSes are one single DS.

Originally posted by darthgoober
The rules don't specifically mention the GDS, they simply exclude things like characters with multiple versions, alternate timelines and the like.

Except for rare occasions when they are allowed. This is what you keep missing in your posts.

Rules specifically state:

With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.

What I gather from this is that marvel fanboys can win arguments only by discarding feats from other characters.

a bit of a strange argument for sure. all ds is canon, which makes gds ds canon, but he's not allowed in kmc arguments because of an alt timeline ruling that supposes there are exceptions--only we're don't know for sure if gds is considered a rare exception.

😐

i always figured it was simply canon/non-canon that determined if something is usable in forum unless it is SPECIFICALLY ruled otherwise. like wbh, or owaw superman. i feel like i'm trying to determine what is or ins't a catch in the NFL.
/shrug

Originally posted by leonidas
i always figured it was simply canon/non-canon that determined if something is usable in forum unless it is SPECIFICALLY ruled otherwise.

The rules are made so that stuff like What Ifs are not used in debates to show mainstream characters capabilities. Trust me, everybody in this thread knows this, but they're trying to be obtuse so as to avoid actually tackling the feats, and biding their time until the mod clarifies.

It's a basic principle in law in all good democratic countries.

All things are allowed, unless expressly forbidden.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everything_which_is_not_forbidden_is_allowed

Regarding the legion being an alternate timeline or not:

Like most things in comics, it's inconsistent. Here in Superboy #204 we're shown directly how Legion's 30th century is linked to the Earth-1's present timeline.

http://imgur.com/WaZBPrp
http://imgur.com/OF4Epa6

the same thing was shown previously in issue #198 although here it's depicted clearer.

However, a bit later in Superboy & LOSH #238 an editor explains how Legion's 30th century is as equally valid as other version of the 30th century as well (like the one where Iris and later on barry spent their time)

http://imgur.com/lqiVHNE

In Legion #300 it's also explained that there are other future/30th century LOSH reality versions:

http://imgur.com/EmGRUha

As such, because of this contradictions (and there are more), i definitely do not think that GDS Darkseid should be used to mainstream DS. Especially when other things (like DS displaying planet level TP where previously in his New Gods issues he wasn't able to) indicate otherwise.

Geoff John's in his recent final crisis legion mini corrected a lot of the inconsistencies. Also GDS is still continually being referenced in the main DCU. Not like it has been ignored or altered

Originally posted by -K-M-
Geoff John's in his recent final crisis legion mini corrected a lot of the inconsistencies. Also GDS is still continually being referenced in the main DCU. Not like it has been ignored or altered

I see where you're coming from, actually, but my point is more in regards to comics inconsistency. LOSH being an alternate timeline or not will keep changing depending on the writer, as it has ben throughout history. In one story it's the future reality of mainstream earth, in another it's an alternate timeline and one of many possible futures.

What is the most current and recent depiction?

After all, Mjolnir is sometimes said to be an uru hammer with enchantments, and sometimes a sentient super storm, for example.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's it?

Concession accepted again.

Now could you provide us a proof that Legion of Superheroes is an alternate reality?

Don't we see multiple version of them in DC Universe: Legacies?

Originally posted by abhilegend
What I gather from this is that marvel fanboys can win arguments only by discarding feats from other characters.

Irony.

Originally posted by abhilegend
ermm

You don't get Source's power when you get absorbed in it.

That's if you're absorbed into the wall as an invader. Highfather directly encounters The Source for good reason and utilizes the power.

Originally posted by operator616
Regarding the legion being an alternate timeline or not:

Like most things in comics, it's inconsistent. Here in Superboy #204 we're shown directly how Legion's 30th century is linked to the Earth-1's present timeline.

http://imgur.com/WaZBPrp
http://imgur.com/OF4Epa6

the same thing was shown previously in issue #198 although here it's depicted clearer.

However, a bit later in Superboy & LOSH #238 an editor explains how Legion's 30th century is as equally valid as other version of the 30th century as well (like the one where Iris and later on barry spent their time)

http://imgur.com/lqiVHNE

In Legion #300 it's also explained that there are other future/30th century LOSH reality versions:

http://imgur.com/EmGRUha

As such, because of this contradictions (and there are more), i definitely do not think that GDS Darkseid should be used to mainstream DS. Especially when other things (like DS displaying planet level TP where previously in his New Gods issues he wasn't able to) indicate otherwise.

That's even the basis of whole 5 years later Legion and pocket dimension Superboy.

Post crisis Legion is always the destined future of DC.

Even though it is mentioned time and time again that it was Darkseid from main reality as shown in Booster Gold and LOSH by Time Trapper, you'll just deny it because.....

Nothing of course.

Originally posted by operator616
I see where you're coming from, actually, but my point is more in regards to comics inconsistency. LOSH being an alternate timeline or not will keep changing depending on the writer, as it has ben throughout history. In one story it's the future reality of mainstream earth, in another it's an alternate timeline and one of many possible futures.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Don't we see multiple version of them in DC Universe: Legacies?

Irony.

As per current continuity Legion never returned to modern era DCU since COIE until Lightning saga and Superman and Legion of Superheroes.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
That's if you're absorbed into the wall as an invader. Highfather directly encounters The Source for good reason and utilizes the power.

And you have proof of that?

Originally posted by abhilegend
All of them are retconned as Time Trapper ****ing with time to erase Superman from timeline and his connection with Legion.

now that you've said it, i remember a debate where i thought this was proven and settled, no?

Originally posted by abhilegend
All of them are retconned as Time Trapper ****ing with time to erase Superman from timeline and his connection with Legion.

That's even the basis of whole 5 years later Legion and pocket dimension Superboy.

Post crisis Legion is always the destined future of DC.

Even though it is mentioned time and time again that it was Darkseid from main reality as shown in Booster Gold and LOSH by Time Trapper, you'll just deny it because.....

Nothing of course.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Could you show us where Legion is shown as an alternate reality different from main DCU other than showing different outcomes of Legion forming?
Alternate reality versions of Legion. Both 1994 reboot of Legion and 2004 are alternate reality Legion.

Eh, what are you talking about? The TT retcon has nothing to do with this. Yes, TT linked superboy's pocket with the legion timeline, so what? I posted a direct statement from the editor himself saying that legion's timeline is as equally valid future as the one where Barry and Iris are (also 30th century) as well as every other 30th century depiction.

you must have missed this scan.

http://imgur.com/lqiVHNE

Originally posted by operator616
Eh, what are you talking about? The TT retcon has nothing to do with this. Yes, TT linked superboy's pocket with the legion timeline, so what? I posted a direct statement from the editor himself saying that legion's timeline is as equally valid future as the one where Barry and Iris are (also 30th century) as well as every other 30th century depiction.

you must have missed this scan.

http://imgur.com/lqiVHNE

That was before it was even revealed that Barry and Iris were in the same 30th century as LOSH.

Continuity wasn't as coherent as today in those days anyway.

Could you give an example of post crisis Legion being an alternate reality Legion? Legion reality was changed when Trapper buried a crystal far in past detailing how Superman was a human as shown in Action Comics 865.

How is that possible if it's just an alternate reality?