Valkorion's supremacy, a comparison.

Started by FreshestSlice6 pages

Originally posted by AncientPower ]Given the power he is facing and the circumstances of the fights themselves, it is much more impressive.

It really isn't, as none of these have any established power whatsoever. No matter the composition, the same victory happens regardless.

Remove his need to empower the Temple and the aid both teams had from Revan's ghost, he's likely winning on both occasions. Ant already proved that.

No, Ant made an assumption. Just like you're making an assumption that I'll touch on latter. You can't just arbitrarily make conclusions based on nothing, as every single one of these fights happen in gameplay.

Nyriss obviously isn't as powerful as the strike teams that go around defeating Malgus

Different Strike team

and the Dread Masters,

Also possibly a different strike team.

yet Revan faced down

Yet another different strike team

two in a row and barely lost.

They never lost at all.

The OP is predicated on SOR Revan being eclipsed by Vitiate and then the much more powerful Valkorion.

Unless you know the power comparison between SOR Revan and Vitiate, and you don't, then there's no point in using that logic. You can't base that on his performance in their encounter in the novel.

A shame we'll never get actual writings of what happened in these Strike team fights, we just get the beginning and the end...no middle as to what happens since...well it's the player playing the fight.

Would be a hell of a lot easier for sure in debates, rather then making shit up as to what did or didn't happen and it kinda goes for almost all the boss fight in general really for TOR.

I agree that Valkorion is possibly more powerful than Sidious but him being far better than Revan doesn't prove that.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Yoda's best tutaminis feat which has been replicated by Mother Talzin and to a degree, even Galen Marek.

Not that it isn't impressive, but your false equivalence aside, Vitiate's lightning is so far beyond Nyriss' that it's a comparative joke. Nyriss, whose lightning was capable of incinerating one of the three most powerful Jedi in three hundred years, and Scourge who tanked Xedrix's lightning. Who despite suffering from age is still wanked to be the third most powerful Sith in the empire by his time besides the Emperor himself.

Nyriss' lightning being amped also isn't remotely relevant to Revan's raw power, infact it only makes Revan more impressive that he is doing this on a nexus that he states blocks his farsight abilities. Then add three centuries of him gaining knowledge and the fact he is stated to have further intensified his powers as of SOR, and we have a guy that isn't just ashing Nyriss tier Force users, he's likely twice that degree of strength and mastery. Factoring in that he is freely abusing his Force in balance powers and is drawing on the dark side without any hesitation.

He went from losing to a single smaller strike team at the Foundry, to barely being defeated by two much larger and much more powerful groups, who were aided by his other half's spirit. All whilst dragging his dead body around through sheer will power and focusing his powers on the activation of the Temple of Sacrifice.

Darth Marr is simply one source among many, both in-universe and out of universe, that state Revan was insane for even believing he can defeat Vitiate.

There's really no counter here.

Talzin vs. Sidious was Canon, not Legends. In either case, the only powerscaling that you're working on comes from Nyriss's lightning, which is hilarious:

1. Sidious has disintegrated sithspawn and dark side acolytes with ease.
2. Sidious has literally bent a lightsaber blade with his lightning in Legends, debate over whether it happened in Canon notwithstanding.
3. Plagueis has vaporized squads of armored soldiers with uncharged telekinesis while seriously injured.
4. Yoda has tossed around droid control ships, which would take a helluva lot more energy than disintegrating people.

So you can reply by saying that Revan did it to Nyriss with ease, so it doesn't put a limit on his tutanimus. But you can't establish or quantify why powerscaling from that through Valkorion puts that above bending lightsaber blades; that conclusion is completely arbitrary. So at best for you, it's a wash.

That means we defer to other methods (ignoring the fact that this method favors Palpatine), such as:

1. Explicit statements of Palpatine's supremacy
2. Palpatine's greater cosmological threat to the Force
3. Palpatine's greater unaided telepathy feats
4. Palpatine's greater telekinesis feats
5. Palpatine's greater barrier feats
6. Palpatine's Force storms
7. Palpatine's greater overall combat ability

To which it is clear that Palpatine > Valkorion, and by a fair margin.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It really isn't, as none of these have any established power whatsoever. No matter the composition, the same victory happens regardless.

No, Ant made an assumption. Just like you're making an assumption that I'll touch on latter. You can't just arbitrarily make conclusions based on nothing, as every single one of these fights happen in gameplay.

Different Strike team

Also possibly a different strike team.

Yet another different strike team

They never lost at all.

Unless you know the power comparison between SOR Revan and Vitiate, and you don't, then there's no point in using that logic. You can't base that on his performance in their encounter in the novel.

Except Valkorion just made it pretty damn clear that the Outlander went through the Dread Masters, the Battle of Yavin IV and Ziost.

Except the game and all the characters make it exceptionally clear that Revan has no chance at all against Vitiate, who is just a pre-Ziost Valkorion.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
A shame we'll never get actual writings of what happened in these Strike team fights, we just get the beginning and the end...no middle as to what happens since...well it's the player playing the fight.

Would be a hell of a lot easier for sure in debates, rather then making shit up as to what did or didn't happen and it kinda goes for almost all the boss fight in general really for TOR.

Has anyone actually pmed one of the developers to ask what or who fought in actual battles in TOR?

Originally posted by carthage
Has anyone actually pmed one of the developers to ask what or who fought in actual battles in TOR?

Don't think so, because they don't want to hurt no one's personal story Canon of them being their own hero for the Republic/Empire. ...Even though, ya know it seems clear the Outlander is the Jedi Knight.