Could Obi Wan replicate Maul's showing against Sidious?

Started by MythLord11 pages
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yeah obviously considering Maul didn't win. My suggestion isn't that Maul had the upper hand lol, only that Sidious was tested by his opponent, which brings into question how long he would have remained complacent.

Barely tested, yeah. As for how long he remained complacent: I assume until Maul actually managed to tag him, but then we did see what happens after that either way.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I already said why, bringing up more examples of Jedi tapping into dark side rage doesn't help your case. Nor does bringing up Savage. Because all of these individuals have one thing in common, they are new to tapping into these emotions, they are discovering their power.

Again, Maul is deeply seated in his hate, getting pissed off about his brother is not going to rocket him up to new plateaus of power that he couldn't have already reached. Unless you care to argue this is more of a motivator than getting cut in half by Kenobi.

See above. And I really don't know what comparison you are drawing.

The fact that Maul is deepy seated in his hate means nothing if not the fact that he has the benefit of greater skill in drawing on said hate.
And one doesn't need to do mental gymnastics to assume the rage amp was more prelevant than his exhaustion when a non-exhausted Maul gets danced around by a holding back Sidious with the aid of his brother, while the rage-amped Maul actually manages to trade a few blows with him. So even assuming Anakin tapping into his rage, or Vos tapping into his rage is an outliar and cannot be applied to Maul, we can just as easily see Maul's performance against Sidious pre and post Savage death and gauge the rage-amp is superfluous to counterbalance the fatigue.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lol @ suggesting Kenobi wouldn't be f*cked either way.

So then you're suggesting that Obi Wan would be a non factor if he and Yoda fought Sidious together?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
😬 No, he means that Kenobi isn't strong enough to fight Palpatine alone, lmfao.

Kenobi: "Send me to kill the Emperor. I will not kill Anakin."

Yoda: "To fight this Lord Sidious, strong enough, you are not."

Now where is the word "alone" mentioned? That's right - it's not mentioned at all. And really, if Yoda thought Obi-Wan would've been of some help, they would've gone after both Sith together. Yoda isn't dumb. He knew Obi-Wan would die against Sidious either way.

Originally posted by Rebel95
So then you're suggesting that Obi Wan would be a non factor if he and Yoda fought Sidious together?

As Sidious could kill him with a single move, yes, I think that he suggest's that.

Here're Obi-Wan's thoughts regarding Yoda and him teaming up against Palpatine:

"Palpatine faced Mace and Agen and Kit and Saesee - four of the greatest swordsmen our Order has ever produced. By himself. Even both of us together wouldn't have a chance."

Originally posted by MythLord
Barely tested, yeah. As for how long he remained complacent: I assume until Maul actually managed to tag him, but then we did see what happens after that either way.
But if Maul's ferocity is enough that Sids would backpedal, it seems more sense making that he'd ramp it up a gear when pushing back.

The fact that Maul is deepy seated in his hate means nothing if not the fact that he has the benefit of greater skill in drawing on said hate.
Of course it does. Like you just said, he's better at drawing on his hate, he doesn't need a rage amp to do so, and something like seeing his brother killed isn't enough to make a massive difference because he's not a noob, he can already tap in to that power.

More importantly though, you didn't answer my question.

And one doesn't need to do mental gymnastics to assume the rage amp was more prelevant than his exhaustion when a non-exhausted Maul gets danced around by a holding back Sidious with the aid of his brother, while the rage-amped Maul actually manages to trade a few blows with him. So even assuming Anakin tapping into his rage, or Vos tapping into his rage is an outliar and cannot be applied to Maul, we can just as easily see Maul's performance against Sidious pre and post Savage death and gauge the rage-amp is superfluous to counterbalance the fatigue.
No mental gymnastics here, only the logic that dramatic increments in power are exclusive to those still testing the boundaries of their abilities, not Sith Lords with total command over their hate.

And I never said Anakin and Vos are outliers. You're just not understanding the situation. Read the RotS novel, in it its described that Anakin comes to a realisation, draws fully on the dark side for the first time, and is rewarded with power. That power doesn't go away, he remains on that level for the rest of the novel. Likewise Vos doesn't get weaker, rather more seated in his power as the novel progresses. These rage amps aren't temporary boosts, they are rather catalysts for tapping into latent potential. Maul's potential is not latent, he's already seated in it, therefore a similar catalyst would not have such a dramatic effect, because that ceiling just isn't there to be broken.

What you need to stop doing is treating a "rage amp" as some kind of external fuel, its not, its just the matter of triggering an emotional state in which you can effectively draw on the dark side. But Maul needs no help in achieving that state. He's already there.

Originally posted by Azronger
Here're Obi-Wan's thoughts regarding Yoda and him teaming up against Palpatine:

"Palpatine faced Mace and Agen and Kit and Saesee - four of the greatest swordsmen our Order has ever produced. By himself. Even both of us together wouldn't have a chance."


As Kenobi is > Kolar/Fisto/Tiin, and Yoda > Mace and the other two, that statement is wrong.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
As Kenobi is > Kolar/Fisto/Tiin

Wtf.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
As Kenobi is > Kolar/Fisto/Tiin, and Yoda > Mace and the other two, that statement is wrong.

Ah, so you're an authority on canon, now?

Originally posted by Ursumeles
As Kenobi is > Kolar/Fisto/Tiin.
What makes you say that?

Originally posted by ILS
What makes you say that?

His hype and feats are better. I don't mean them as trio, btw.

@Azronger Nope, but the Guy who statlemated Sidious should be above the guys whi got blitzed by him, imho.

Originally posted by Azronger
Kenobi: "Send me to kill the Emperor. I will not kill Anakin."

Yoda: "To fight this Lord Sidious, strong enough, you are not."

Now where is the word "alone" mentioned? That's right - it's not mentioned at all. And really, if Yoda thought Obi-Wan would've been of some help, they would've gone after both Sith together. Yoda isn't dumb. He knew Obi-Wan would die against Sidious either way.


I think it's pretty clearly implied when he asks Yoda to SEND HIM to fight the Emperor, not to go with Yoda to fight him. I agree, Obi Wan would probably die either way though.
Originally posted by Ursumeles
As Sidious could kill him with a single move, yes, I think that he suggest's that.

I'm not saying Obi Wan would help much, but the fact that Yoda (arguably) stalemated Sidious alone leads me to believe that Obi Wan could provide support, assuming he doesn't get TKed immediately. Sidious wouldn't be able to break through Obi Wan's soresu while dueling Yoda at the same time, so he would have to resort to using the force to take out Obi Wan, which yeah, I guess he could probably do at any point of the fight.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
His hype and feats are better. I don't mean them as trio, btw.
Kenobi probably did tho.

Originally posted by Azronger
Here're Obi-Wan's thoughts regarding Yoda and him teaming up against Palpatine:

"Palpatine faced Mace and Agen and Kit and Saesee - four of the greatest swordsmen our Order has ever produced. By himself. Even both of us together wouldn't have a chance."


Interesting, I actually remember seeing that somewhere now. Not necessarily true though since Yoda had a very solid chance alone.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Kenobi probably did tho.

I said:
Kenobi > either one of them, bar Mace
Yoda > Mace + the other two

Or we take retarded character statements as fact now, and Tiin > Yoda and Kolar > Anakin as duelistmmm

Let's just all agree Kenobi would get oneshotted.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Let's just all agree Kenobi would get oneshotted.

Prolly, yeah.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Let's just all agree Kenobi would get oneshotted.

And that character opinions aren't infallible 👆

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Let's just all agree Kenobi would get oneshotted.

Eh.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Let's just all agree Kenobi would get oneshotted.

He would last longer than Kit Fisto did, so no.