Originally posted by Nibedicus
Then there doesn't seem to be any room to compromise was there?I mean if they were willing to agree to limit it to instances of self defense, euthanasia, etc. I could get that.
Tho reducing the murder rate by 60% is pretty tempting, I gotta say. Gotta think about this more.
What is the alternative? Nuking them til they glow in the dark?
Have you figured out the point that's being made yet?
Originally posted by Robtard
I still don't see how you can find compromise over something you see as being "murder" as fact. I'm assuming you still hold the belief of abortion = murder?Fair enough on the mother's life being in danger, as that would fall under self-defense of sorts, but I don't see how you can agree with "murdering" someone because their father happens to be a criminal/rapist. Similar goes with a fetus deemed to have a low chance of survival, if killing it is "murder".
I think abortion-at will is murder. I'm pretty sure most moderates can understand the necessity of abortion when there are reasonable medical risks to consider.
Well, one is an act of compassion for the mother (the rape argument), the other is if the low-chance of survival fetus also carried a sufficient risk to the mother and risking both would be unreasonable.
The "rape" scenario has always been a grey area for me (and I am going by pure emotional compassion here rather than pure logic), but I feel like a victim of such trauma should be allowed to protect one's sanity from the psychological trauma. I don't like it. But I cannot, in good conscience, go against it either.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
I think abortion-at will is murder. I'm pretty sure most moderates can understand the necessity of abortion when there are reasonable medical risks to consider.Well, one is an act of compassion for the mother (the rape argument), the other is if the low-chance of survival fetus also carried a sufficient risk to the mother and risking both would be unreasonable.
The "rape" scenario has always been a grey area for me (and I am going by pure emotional compassion here rather than pure logic), but I feel like a victim of such trauma should be allowed to protect one's sanity from the psychological trauma. I don't like it. But I cannot, in good conscience, go against it either.
Totally legit IMHO
Originally posted by Nibedicus
I think abortion-at will is murder. I'm pretty sure most moderates can understand the necessity of abortion when there are reasonable medical risks to consider.Well, one is an act of compassion for the mother (the rape argument), the other is if the low-chance of survival fetus also carried a sufficient risk to the mother and risking both would be unreasonable.
The "rape" scenario has always been a grey area for me (and I am going by pure emotional compassion here rather than pure logic), but I feel like a victim of such trauma should be allowed to protect one's sanity from the psychological trauma. I don't like it. But I cannot, in good conscience, go against it either.
If we're talking about moderation now, still don't see how that (a common ground) can be found with someone who truly believes abortion = murder. Trying to logic my way around it.
But fair enough, you've said you're not really using logic and going with your emotions and I'd find it silly to try and tell you how you should or shouldn't feel emotionally. Abortion is a touchy subject generally.
Originally posted by RaisenThis is why most posters find him to be childish. He is very close minded yet he accuses other's of what he himself embodies. He doesn't have a lot of insight IMO.
Yep, it's his way or the highway. I've always been honest with him and the one time I agreed with him he used that against me
Originally posted by Robtard
If we're talking about moderation now, still don't see how that (a common ground) can be found with someone who truly believes abortion = murder. Trying to logic my way around it.
It's actually not that hard. Firstly, I think ppl are oversimplifying the abortion = murder argument. I feel like most ppl most likely have "levels" on how this applies. Technically, abortion = killing. Similar to killing someone already born, it only becomes "murder" due to the motives/reasons/rationalizations behind it.
I can only speak for myself, but personally, there are reasonable abortions (as I listed above) and the trick is finding ppl like me willing to compromise on the matter and finding ppl willing to compromise on abortion on the left. Perhaps we can convince those further down the fringes of our beliefs to take a more moderate stand so we can actually get a dialogue going.
I dunno, call me a dreamer.
Originally posted by krisblaze
I think youll fins that the majority of people support free abortion rights.I agree that it is a gray area, but most people seem settled on pro.
Firstly, I don't think we should ignore the beliefs of a smaller group of ppl just because there are fewer of them. Everyone should be given a voice. Also, just because more ppl believe in something, does not make it right.
Secondly, according to gallup:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx
The difference between pro life and pro choice doesn't look that considerable to me.
As of 2016.
46% pro life
47% pro choice.
The majority at 50% wants abortion regulated in some way.
Plus those who wants to outright ban it at 19%
While only 29% want it to be regulation-free.
I don't know how reliable you view gallup, tho. But those are their numbers.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
It's actually not that hard. Firstly, I think ppl are oversimplifying the abortion = murder argument. I feel like most ppl most likely have "levels" on how this applies. Technically, abortion = killing. Similar to killing someone already born, it only becomes "murder" due to the motives/reasons/rationalizations behind it.I can only speak for myself, but personally, there are reasonable abortions (as I listed above) and the trick is finding ppl like me willing to compromise on the matter and finding ppl willing to compromise on abortion on the left. Perhaps we can convince those further down the fringes of our beliefs to take a more moderate stand so we can actually get a dialogue going.
I dunno, call me a dreamer.
TBF, it's not really the prochoice side that uses the 'abortion = murder' argument. That argument is generally brought forth by people who are anti abortion, for obvious reasons.
What compromised/changes exactly would you like to see to current abortion laws?
Originally posted by Robtard
TBF, it's not really the prochoice side that uses the 'abortion = murder' argument. That argument is generally brought forth by people who are anti abortion, for obvious reasons.What compromised/changes exactly would you like to see to current abortion laws?
There are always those in the fringe. Thinking those are the ppl who dogmatically stick to a literal abortion = murder logic. Rest of us aren't quite as closed minded, I'm hoping.
Personally? Abortion when medically valid and in extreme cases such as molestation/rape is where I want abortion to be.
Originally posted by Surtur
If someone is pregnant and they want to abort the baby, but they can't because of the law..isn't it possible they'd end up resenting the child?
Certainly possible. Tho, as a parent, if you are gonna resent a child, I'm thinking it would be AFTER they are born as that is when the true challenge begins (if you ask my wife, pregnancy was a breeze. Birth was tough but the long unending grind of parenting is the tough part. Unless, of course you really love your child. In which case it becomes a labor of love instead of a grind.).
There is always adoption.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
There are always those in the fringe. Thinking those are the ppl who dogmatically stick to a literal abortion = murder logic. Rest of us aren't quite as closed minded, I'm hoping.Personally? Abortion when medically valid and in extreme cases such as molestation/rape is where I want abortion to be.
Seems far to limiting and extreme in telling women what they can and can not do with their own bodies and events that will have a massive impact on their lives. I'd personally hate it if someone tried to have a similar control over my person.
I also imagine laws like yours would send women back to seeking "back alley" abortions, which can still be very dangerous, depending. So personally, I hope as a nation we never go back to that.