Darth Sidious & Luke Skywalker vs Exar Kun & Ulic Qel-Droma

The Hero ragdolled a nearly dead Vitiate, who was already weakened. Not that hard to believe.

Anakin killing Sidious? More likely than anything else Sidious just didn't expect it. It's like Krayt and Cade. Sidious was too carried away by the smell of victory to comprehend the possibility of a betrayal. It's a "blitz" in the same way that RotJ Vader grabbed Sidious and hoisted him up before he could react.

Jaden beating Kyle? Why not? He's embraced the dark side, and they're fighting on a DS nexus with Jaden having the Scepter of Ragnos. Kyle is pre-prime as well.

Exar Kun as a mere spirit defeated Luke by lending his power to Kyp Durron and Sith spirits are considered to be powerless compared to their living selves. He nearly ripped out Luke's spirit from his body as well. Living Kun would one shot Luke Skywalker and he and Ulic would trounce Palpatine.

Originally posted by SunRazer
The Hero ragdolled a nearly dead Vitiate, who was already weakened. Not that hard to believe.

Anakin killing Sidious? More likely than anything else Sidious just didn't expect it. It's like Krayt and Cade. Sidious was too carried away by the smell of victory to comprehend the possibility of a betrayal. It's a "blitz" in the same way that RotJ Vader grabbed Sidious and hoisted him up before he could react.

Jaden beating Kyle? Why not? He's embraced the dark side, and they're fighting on a DS nexus with Jaden having the Scepter of Ragnos. Kyle is pre-prime as well.

A Vitiate who even in that state was capable of temple busting and returning to power by driving a populace mad.

Jaden beat him in a lightsaber bout prior to using the Scepter of Ragnos.

Your excuses are pitiful.

1. Vitiate wasn't capable of returning to power then, lol. That's why he went into hibernation. He didn't bust the Temple, either. He just brought down the Inner Sanctum with repeated tremors. Also, he does that after you kill him, as a spirit (in the DS one).

I don't see how this makes it harder to believe that the HoT, who's supposed to be the most powerful Jedi, can ragdoll him on his deathbed.

2. Yeah, with a two-way environmental advantage. Nothing wrong there. Kyle's best dueling feat at this point is beating Sariss. Also, is it specifically said to be dueling?

3. Well, you've accepted one of them.

Let's not forget that this 'temple buster' also didn't do anything to stop the horse-sized rock from falling on and crushing him.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Let's not forget that this 'temple buster' also didn't do anything to stop the horse-sized rock from falling on and crushing him.

👆

The collapsing of the Inner Sanctum is separate and Vitiate does it as he departs his body.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Well, you've accepted one of them.

I haven't accepted any of them because none of them occurred. You have nothing.

Originally posted by SunRazer
👆

The collapsing of the Inner Sanctum is separate and Vitiate does it as he departs his body.

Vitiate would be even weaker in spirit form then when possessing the body of one of his Voices.

Eh, depends. As a Voice, his power is also dispersed among all his other servants. Following the Voice's death, I imagine all of Vitiate's power was returned and concentrated into the spirit.

"As a Voice, his power is also dispersed among all his other servants."

Quote?

SWTORE, I imagine. Vitiate had dozens of servants operating for him, in which he held varying degrees of influence over them.

Plus, final acts like Vitiate's destruction of part of the temple are always going to be greater than what you're dishing out in combat.

Please provide it then.

If Vitiate relocates to another Voice but his power resets upon being ousted from a body then he would have had to re-partisan his power after moving into a new Voice body. It seems rather unlikely that he'd do this when he's weakened in the first place.

And if it doesn't reset then that would mean his power would remain with those he was empowering until he took it back.

And that's fine, but then a substantially greater amount of power then whatever the Voice held at the time is going to be required to ragdoll him as the HoT did.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I haven't accepted any of them because none of them occurred. You have nothing.

You failed to respond to one, so I assume you accepted it. In any case, we may as well just agree to disagree, since I know there's never going to be a fruitful outcome from this, lol.

And none of us are debating what occurred. We're debating what can occur - given that this entire forum is dedicated to hypothetical scenarios, lmfao.

No I didn't accept it. Sidious lowering his guard against Anakin who he can read like an open book is a laughably poor excuse which is why I didn't bother to respond to it.

In any debate forum you debate what CAN occur and what is MOST LIKELY to occur based off what DID occur.

To use what non canon events as evidence for what CAN occur and what will MOST LIKELY occur in a hypothetical scenario is asinine.

Just like Krayt could read Cade like an open book? Just like RotJ Emperor could read Vader like an open book? Letting your guard down is practically PIS, and it happens when you think it's over. And the Emperor does nothing in the RotS game anyway so I have no idea why you're trying to pass it off as an inconsistency of some kind. The RotS game characters' power levels are completely different to standard continuity. Anakin > Mace (which is going to be different for you at least), Drallig is a challenge for Anakin, Obi-Wan's very close to Anakin, etc.

What's most likely to happen is our opinion. What can occur is based on analysis of evidence, and we don't need to analyze much considering we have the source material blatantly saying it to us. Using events from the original source material is perfectly valid for discussing potential outcomes. There's nothing asinine about using the exact same material that you use for all of Galen's feats.

What's most likely to happen can be estimated by feats and logical scaling.

There are some areas that are opinion based as there is no clear answer like the specific power levels of the Ancients, etc. Using non canon events as evidence to back up a point is not one of those grey areas.

Nova, you need to understand something. Just because something comes from a source that has official and relevant information doesn't mean that the item in question will itself be relevant or official. A good example being author opinions ( maybe not so good because you seem to take those too ).

1. Indeed, and that's why I'm using a feat to make my judgment. And scaling (refer to my comparisons with Mace and Maul).

2. I didn't reference any dubious areas at all, so I have no idea what you're referring to.

3. If it's the original source material, then it's as valid as everything else in the same source material - especially because it's the same author. It's not like a magazine where you have a bunch of different authors throwing in random stuff.

4. I don't take author opinions as fact, lmfao. Maybe that's why I debate against Plagueis > Sidious, Malak > Revan in sabers or Revan trashing the Exile and Kreia. I might make a passing reference to them occasionally, but I've ran an entire campaign against Ant thinking author opinions are incontrovertible fact. You seriously don't even know my perspectives on these things, and you're already accusing me? lmfao You've smoked your own credibility.

That aside, author quotes come from emails and forum posts, not the original source material (which would be the book or the game).

Originally posted by SunRazer
Just like Krayt could read Cade like an open book? Just like RotJ Emperor could read Vader like an open book? Letting your guard down is practically PIS, and it happens when you think it's over. And the Emperor does nothing in the RotS game anyway so I have no idea why you're trying to pass it off as an inconsistency of some kind. The RotS game characters' power levels are completely different to standard continuity. Anakin > Mace (which is going to be different for you at least), Drallig is a challenge for Anakin, Obi-Wan's very close to Anakin, etc.

What's most likely to happen is our opinion. What can occur is based on analysis of evidence, and we don't need to analyze much considering we have the source material blatantly saying it to us. Using events from the original source material is perfectly valid for discussing potential outcomes. There's nothing asinine about using the exact same material that you use for all of Galen's feats.

What are you talking about?

Krayt and Cade fought in an open battle and Krayt hadn't spent years manipulating and molding Cade to become the person he was.

RotJ Vader never had an open relationship with the Emperor after RotS and was plotting to destroy him for nearly two decades. Granted Sidious was aware of this fact but he had no reason to think that Vader would betray him given all the other times he'd foiled Vader's attempts he had folded to him. Sidious's downfall occurred because he couldn't understand love. Not the love Luke had for his father or the love Vader still had for Luke even after decades of perversion in the Darkside.

"The RotS game characters' power levels are completely different to standard continuity. Anakin > Mace (which is going to be different for you at least), Drallig is a challenge for Anakin, Obi-Wan's very close to Anakin, etc."

THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

Non canon events do not accurately portray power levels. YOU JUST SAID IT YOURSELF!!!

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
What are you talking about?

Krayt and Cade fought in an open battle and Krayt hadn't spent years manipulating and molding Cade to become the person he was.

RotJ Vader never had an open relationship with the Emperor and was plotting to destroy him. Granted Sidious was aware of this but he had no reason to think that the man Vader had once been would resurface given who he had become.

Krayt had just implanted visions of Cade's future into his mind. Obviously he would assume he knew what Cade was thinking.

Sidious is constantly reading Vader's mind, lol. That he failed to do so at that critical point is PIS.

"The RotS game characters' power levels are completely different to standard continuity. Anakin > Mace (which is going to be different for you at least), Drallig is a challenge for Anakin, Obi-Wan's very close to Anakin, etc."

THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

Non canon events do not accurately portray power levels. YOU JUST SAID IT YOURSELF!!!

Calm down, lol. I said the RotS game doesn't portray characters in the same way as, say, the RotS novel or something. But it's still consistent with itself. There's no contradiction within itself.

And that's my point. The DS ending of TFU was not made to be independent or contradictory to the game itself. So the Galen in the DS ending is the same Galen as the one in the LS ending, and the same goes for Palpatine.

The difference being that the entirety of the RotS game isn't canon, not just the DS ending. Whereas TFU is canon, and it's not in its own pocket universe like the RotS game. The RotS game was never meant to be belong in the same universe as everything else (notice that's why I never bring up RotS game feats in general). TFU was. So the RotS DS ending keeps in step with itself, the RotS game, which is its own pocket universe anyway, with its own character power levels, its own events, etc. Whereas the TFU DS ending keeps in step with itself, being TFU, which is part of continuity. The same applies to KotOR, KotOR II or TOR. Or the JK series or any other canon game that is part of Legends continuity and not its own pocket universe with its own power levels.

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Indeed, and that's why I'm using a feat to make my judgment. And scaling (refer to my comparisons with Mace and Maul).

2. I didn't reference any dubious areas at all, so I have no idea what you're referring to.

3. If it's the original source material, then it's as valid as everything else in the same source material - especially because it's the same author. It's not like a magazine where you have a bunch of different authors throwing in random stuff.

4. I don't take author opinions as fact, lmfao. Maybe that's why I debate against Plagueis > Sidious, Malak > Revan in sabers or Revan trashing the Exile and Kreia. I might make a passing reference to them occasionally, but I've ran an entire campaign against Ant thinking author opinions are incontrovertible fact. You seriously don't even know my perspectives on these things, and you're already accusing me? lmfao You've smoked your own credibility.

That aside, author quotes come from emails and forum posts, not the original source material (which would be the book or the game).

1. Except it never actually happened making it unusable. The difference between you and I is that you seem to believe the non canon events hold an authority of some kind when they don't.

2. Referencing non canon events is not only referencing a dubious area but one that has no validity on any level.

3. And that's where you and I disagree. A game is going to try to suit the needs and interests of the player first beyond anything. A non canon story path occurs in nearly all Star Wars games. A game creator doesn't care what happens in the non canon story path as long as it's mildly interesting because IT HAS NO BEARING ON CONTINUITY.

4. I really don't care what your stances on author opinions are. I care that you seem to think that because accurate and relevant information comes from a work all information that exists within that work is both accurate and relevant.