Count Dooku vs Darth Malgus and Satele Shan

Originally posted by SunRazer
Obi-Wan's better than Hope Malgus etc. - I wouldn't say Deceived Malgus. IIRC, most of Obi-Wan's feats were accomplished with build-up time and focus which wouldn't be realistic in combat, whereas Malgus performs on-the-go sort of feats that you can easily bring into combat. And as far as those instantaneous showings go, I think Malgus' are better according to memory.

What I was saying before related to dueling, not Force power.

What do you make of upgraded Malgus one shotting someone who could withstand his (Deceived) force powers before? Note that Aryn was lauded as "one of the most powerful Jedi" and was capable of enhancing her perception to nano time scale (to the point where the exact moment of a hyperspace jump "seemed to freeze before her eyes"😉, while at same time, moving like a blur, "reacting faster than any machine" (according to herself) and multitasking with the ship interface.

Not really a conventional one-shot, really, but yeah, he does grow more powerful by quite a bit, and he presumably gets stronger over the years between the novel and TOR.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Not really a conventional one-shot, really, but yeah, he does grow more powerful by quite a bit, and he presumably gets stronger over the years between the novel and TOR.

Don't you consider that Obi Wan is at the risk to be overwhelmed by his powers, based on the fact that End of Deceived Malgus casually semi one shotted (to use your own words) someone who was able to withstand his powers before (there are other feats like Malgus semi blitzing Aadras, who before could react and even cross blades against him)? And we agree that Illum Malgus > Post Deceived Malgus >/>> Deceived Malgus.

Originally posted by SunRazer
How it is A>B>C? Obi-Wan and Anakin are in every way superior to Malgus and Satele as duelists,

Based on?

and have far better synergy.

Debate the point or it's a concession.

Big talk, coming from a washed up has been.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Based on?

Better feats and accolades, for one. Anakin's around where Dooku is, which is definitely above either Malgus or Shan. Obi-Wan's close enough, and his feats against Ventress, Maul and Grievous surpass Malgus and Satele's showings as well.

Okay?

Which you know is a factor, right?

Big talk, coming from a washed up has been.

It's funny when you throw insults that apply to yourself. 😂

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Don't you consider that Obi Wan is at the risk to be overwhelmed by his powers, based on the fact that End of Deceived Malgus casually semi one shotted (to use your own words) someone who was able to withstand his powers before (there are other feats like Malgus semi blitzing Aadras, who before could react and even cross blades against him)? And we agree that Illum Malgus > Post Deceived Malgus >/>> Deceived Malgus.

Well, no, because "withstanding" somebody's powers doesn't mean you have to be as powerful as them. I was also referring to Malgus by the end of Deceived before, not at the beginning.

Malgus is definitely more powerful, but one-shotting? Not seeing it.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Well, no, because "withstanding" somebody's powers doesn't mean you have to be as powerful as them. I was also referring to Malgus by the end of Deceived before, not at the beginning.

What showings Obi Wan does have that compares with blasting holes in the body of a Jedi Knight, past his lightsaber guard while serverely injured ("barely clinging to life" according Daaru) with lightning? Destroying an entire squadron of star fighters with a mere fraction of his powers, with a spontaneous force scream that also made the ears of the entire crew of a dreadnough to bleed? Deaccelerating and momentarily holding back a freighter (who was considered to be "large" or "big"😉 with it's engines at full power(these engines can accelerate at dozens or even hundreds of G's), after he fought Aryn?

Malgus is definitely more powerful, but one-shotting? Not seeing it.

Oh, I'm not saying he one shots but I believe the power gap is enough to grant him the decisive edge in an all out setting.

Better feats and accolades, for one.

Elaborate.

Anakin's around where Dookuis, which is definitely above either Malgus or Shan.

Malgus is like wise, Dooku tier. Having battle unprecedented battle feats, besting Kao [who, by virtue of being a Blade Master, is a high level master of multiple forms, held back Vindican and (Hope) Malgus --- while showing madly impressive technical skill defeating successfully duel wielding with a double-bladed lightsaber and a normal blade] And Zallow [who was considered to be a greater kill for Malgus than Kao which strongly imply clear superiority to Darach, and scaling aside, he was blitzing some of the best Sith in the Empire with casual ease] all of which, was performed, before Malgus gained a substantial degree of strength in the Force, which, would logically, increase his overall combative effectiveness by a significant degree.

Obi-Wan's close enough, and his feats against Ventress, Maul and Grievous surpass Malgus and Satele's showings as well.

Obi-Wan is better than Shan, yeah, no argument here. He's not better than Malgus, though.

Which you know is a factor, right?

It's funny when you throw insults that apply to yourself.

Naaaah.

Your decline has been noted for some time now. 🙂

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Elaborate.

Anakin's bordering on level 9, which is Yoda/Sidious-tier. He's supposedly already the strongest warrior in the Order by this time, nearly a level ahead of Obi-Wan (who has the below).

Obi-Wan's beaten Ventress, matched Maul, and beaten pre-TCW Grievous. He's also enormously superior to Kit Fisto per Gillard, who already has better showings and accolades than Satele in combat.

Malgus is like wise, Dooku tier. Having battle unprecedented battle feats, besting Kao [who, by virtue of being a Blade Master, is a high level master of multiple forms, held back Vindican and (Hope) Malgus --- while showing madly impressive technical skill defeating successfully duel wielding with a double-bladed lightsaber and a normal blade] And Zallow [who was considered to be a greater kill for Malgus than Kao which strongly imply clear superiority to Darach, and scaling aside, he was blitzing some of the best Sith in the Empire with casual ease] all of which, was performed, before Malgus gained a substantial degree of strength in the Force, which, would logically, increase his overall combative effectiveness by a significant degree.

Tiers are pretty huge. Obi-Wan is in Dooku's tier but can be defeated without too much trouble.

Malgus' "unprecedented battle feats" are far too ambiguous to compare - in any case, Dooku's feats aren't from the battlefield.

It was Return Malgus that got held off by Kao, not Hope. And Return Malgus only defeat Kao after being enraged (and arguably with Kao being tired) - prior to that, he failed to defeat Kao even by his Master's side. It's not a legitimate showing of flat superiority.

That leaves us with Zallow, who is already matched by the likes of Kit Fisto, who is enormously behind Dooku.

Obi-Wan is better than Shan, yeah, no argument here. He's not better than Malgus, though.

Why not? Anakin definitely is, anyway.

As long as Satale doesn't get in Malgus', way, it shouldn't be a problem. Malgus monstrous strength coupled with his adroitness with a blade would cause Dooku fits alone, Satale only has to offer a lite support for the team to secure the victory.

I'm not seeing strength or skill that surpasses, say, Grievous, who never gave Dooku fits with a blade. Only Yoda-tier characters have given Dooku "fits" with a blade before.

Satele offers little. Dooku knows Ataru inside-out and outclasses her in combat.

Your decline has been noted for some time now. 🙂

Nah, it's more of a shift in how people think. But basically everyone's declining now, lol. Nobody really gives a shit anymore.

Just wanted to clarify your point on tiers being huge. Dooku could only defeat Obi Wan easily by RotS when the Force was included. In saber combat they're relatively close and the tiers only reference saber combat as far as I'm aware.

I didn't say easily. I said without too much trouble - which there isn't when you can control their lightsaber, lol.

Dooku's one-shotted Obi-Wan in the comic, but the novel has him unable to break Obi-Wan's defenses, so they basically represent the extreme depictions. The movie's in the middle with Dooku being clearly better than Obi-Wan but not being able to one-shot him.

I've been referring to dueling the whole time.

Just wanted to clarify. I would still disagree with your use of the term "without too much trouble."

Dooku takes sbaers and all-out. Not sure about the Force. He was able to contend with more powerful duo, like Anakin and Obi-Wan. He held his own against Yoda. Shan isn's much of a factor here, not even sure if she's Fisto's equal in sabers. But it seemd, that she's below.
Malgus is stronger, but if he will be left to figh Dooku alone, he will die every single time.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Just wanted to clarify. I would still disagree with your use of the term "without too much trouble."

And one word about Stover's novel. It should be clear, that Dooku had a seconds to defeat Kenobi. And Kenobi's defense was far to great, to be overpowered in that short time. So Dooku doesn't even tried. But in the same book, Dooku, while being extremely exhousted, still managed to defeat Obi-Wan by a physical attack.

Team wins in a tough fight I think

DC's descent into shit tier is fascinating and sad at the same time.

Too bad I don't concern myself with the opinions of shitty debaters, who's rep has always been shitty, and likely always will be.

How is beating Kao and Ven Obi-Wan +?
Kao's best feat is beating high-class fodder, and hype-wise Anoon is as good, if not better; while Ven only blitzed fodder. Granted, that's impressive, but Ben Skywalker did similar things.

Congrats on not being able to read and comprehend.

I like you a lot Urs, but how can you possibly miss the bulk of my argument? Even at that level, Vindican was a noted Inquisitor, and Malgus was on his way to becoming the greatest warrior in Vitiate Empire, I wouldn't qualify either as "glorified fodder".

Kao is clearly Anoon's superior.

As for Zallow, blitzing some of the best Sith in a Empire filled with thousands upon thousands and better than Ben killing some Lost Tribe Sith Lords, as well as being a canotical superior to Kao Darach.

But, you miss the point --- Malgus gained a very substantial amount of power after those two showings, thus, he became a far superior combatant overall. So impressive, that his battle field feats was unparalleled, and Sidious noted him as one of his most powerful predecessors.

If after thousands of years after his time, that a Sith stand s out to the most powerful Sith Lord to ever exist, then you know your power is matched by few.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
How is beating Kao and Ven Obi-Wan +?
Kao's best feat is beating high-class fodder, and hype-wise Anoon is as good, if not better; while Ven only blitzed fodder. Granted, that's impressive, but Ben Skywalker did similar things.