Bane Vs The Winter Soldier

Originally posted by h1a8
It would be very difficult for WS to ko Bane without the metal arm. Remember, Bane NO SELL hits from Batman.

What so special about Batman punches? WS is an enhanced human. All his stats far surpass Batman and Bane as well. I don't think you're wrapping your head around what that means. It means That a normal peak humans don't stand a chance. Nothing shown in the movie shows Batman is anything other than a peak human with bad fighting skills. I don't care what is implied about the league of shadows. His screen fighting feats are laughable bad. Also Batman is over the hill and out of shape and he was still able to beat Bane.Bane does show a bit more strength but nothing too over the top. There are martial artists that have broken concrete bricks no problem and they don't have any superhuman strength. Bane was also laughable in his fighting skills and speed in his screen feats.

Originally posted by h1a8 Plus WS didn't ko regular humans with his hits (Tony Stark).
If WS could then it would take many hits to do.

Originally posted by h1a8

You missed my point. I wasn't arguing that you can't equate a feat with the representation of a forum character. I was arguing that you can't equate a showing with another showing. Totally different. For example, Supergirl casually lifting 500 million tons doesn't mean she punched someone with that same force (assuming she used all her might).

You just tried to prove a point that Supergirl doesn't always use her 100% strength and now you twist it as in WS always punching at full power?Lol

Winter Soldier wins every single fight vs Bane .Without WS using firearms or his metal arm. Throw in Batman as well and WS still wins every fight without guns or his metal arm.

Originally posted by h1a8
It would be very difficult for WS to ko Bane without the metal arm. Remember, Bane NO SELL hits from Batman. Plus WS didn't ko regular humans with his hits (Tony Stark).

You keep accusing other people of trying to judge characters by individual showings, but you are the one who keeps doing it. He has KO'd people with his human arm before. Both during the helicarrier scene from CW:TWS (the SHIELD pilot he doesn't kick he drops with a punch from his human arm), and during the staircase fight/escape scene, from CA:CW (he drops more than one of the German Spec Ops guys using his normal arm). And that's ignoring the fact that he also still has two super strong legs, which he has KO'd (and more) regular humans with.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
You mean derailing the thread?

They're right. WS doesn't need to hit him with his metal arm.

Just shoot the sh!t out of him.

This fight has been decided. This is spite vs Bane, don't you agree?

The thread is over. Everyone said WS wins on the first page (even me). No one has argued for Bane winning.

We are allowed to discuss other issues in a thread as long as everyone agrees with the outcome of the thread (the thread is over).

If you don't like the discussion we are having then
1. Ignore us
2. Create a new thread for the discussion
Or
3. Contact a mod to close this thread

Originally posted by Inhuman
What so special about Batman punches? WS is an enhanced human. All his stats far surpass Batman and Bane as well. I don't think you're wrapping your head around what that means. It means That a normal peak humans don't stand a chance. Nothing shown in the movie shows Batman is anything other than a peak human with bad fighting skills. I don't care what is implied about the league of shadows. His screen fighting feats are laughable bad. Also Batman is over the hill and out of shape and he was still able to beat Bane.Bane does show a bit more strength but nothing too over the top. There are martial artists that have broken concrete bricks no problem and they don't have any superhuman strength. Bane was also laughable in his fighting skills and speed in his screen feats.

You just tried to prove a point that Supergirl doesn't always use her 100% strength and now you twist it as in WS always punching at full power?Lol

Winter Soldier wins every single fight vs Bane .Without WS using firearms or his metal arm. Throw in Batman as well and WS still wins every fight without guns or his metal arm.

On average, it would take WS more than 1 hit to ko a human adult male with a punch with human arm in a movie. Just look at his punch against Tony.

Batman, although not stronger, is not very far behind in strength of punches.
Reasonably, WS, on average, can probably punch 20-40% harder than Batman.
No selling a punch means that doubling the strike power will not ko the no seller.

Bane is faster than all real humans in fighting. He's a master in the league of shadows. You can't judge acting speed with real speed. Otherwise, many real professional fighters will embarrass WS and Cap. We use the suspension of disbelief along with the benchmark of how well they do against real humans.
WS is just as fast as real professional fighters (how he did against movie professional fighters) and just as skilled.

WS is peak human at best, Batman is slightly below peak human on average.

Winter Soldier is not "peak human at best". He is confirmed on screen (and via Word of God statements from the Directors) as being a superhuman. Or did you also forget how he sent a SHIELD pilot sailing through the air with a straight kick? And you said "at best", so you can't do your "Use only average showings" schtick here. Also, please provide all the showings you are basing Batman being "slightly below peak human on average". So far, you have provided one striking feat.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
You keep accusing other people of trying to judge characters by individual showings, but you are the one who keeps doing it. He has KO'd people with his human arm before. Both during the helicarrier scene from CW:TWS (the SHIELD pilot he doesn't kick he drops with a punch from his human arm), and during the staircase fight/escape scene, from CA:CW (he drops more than one of the German Spec Ops guys using his normal arm). And that's ignoring the fact that he also still has two super strong legs, which he has KO'd (and more) regular humans with.

I'll look at the scenes. But Batman dropped a human with a casually back fist. This is beyond any punch WS did to a human. In other words, Batman could have punched multiple times harder.

Bane is HIGHLY skilled with a superhuman level of damage soak. WS will not be able to hit him cleanly very easily.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Winter Soldier is not "peak human at best". He is confirmed on screen (and via Word of God statements from the Directors) as being a superhuman. Or did you also forget how he sent a SHIELD pilot sailing through the air with a straight kick? And you said "at best", so you can't do your "Use only average showings" schtick here. Also, please provide all the showings you are basing Batman being "slightly below peak human on average". So far, you have provided one striking feat.

Superhuman because of the arm. Give me proof to these director comments. Also, give me proof that directors comments are allowed as evidence. Because in the comic forum, it's not.

I'll revisit the kick feat.

Originally posted by h1a8
I'll look at the scenes. But Batman dropped a human with a casually back fist. This is beyond any punch WS did to a human. In other words, Batman could have punched multiple times harder.

Bane is HIGHLY skilled with a superhuman level of damage soak. WS will not be able to hit him cleanly very easily.

The people Winter Soldier didn't casually drop, and who managed to evade his blows, were elite individuals, who operate in a world where aliens, killer robots, magic etc. exist (i.e. the entire universe is more powerful). Those characters are portrayed as being beyond the average professional human fighter. They are shown as being the very best humanity can put out there, against all the various threats they face. Hell, someone like Black Widow has multiple durability feats that would put her into the realm of superhuman, by real life standards (grabbing onto a speeding Chitauri flier without tearing her arm off, dropping a couple dozen feet without injury during that same battle, fighting Hawkeye shortly after taking a swipe from the Hulk, getting flung like a ragdoll after riding on Hulk's back and getting right back up, in AoU, or shrugging off being in an extremely confined space as a grenade went off, with only a human to partially block the blast, which still sent them flying back with enough force to knock the door off an armoured vehicle). And you still haven't addressed things like Winter Soldier kicking a guy 20+ feet, something Batman has not done, and which is well beyond "peak human". Also, you are making claims about Bane, because he is "Master" of the LoS in a grounded universe, where everyone is human. And ignoring the fact that when he no-sold Batman's blows, it was a Batman who was hardly at his own peak. When Batman came back, at the end of the film, Bane was not simply no-selling all his hits.

Originally posted by h1a8
Superhuman because of the arm. Give me proof to these director comments. Also, give me proof that directors comments are allowed as evidence. Because in the comic forum, it's not.

I'll revisit the kick feat.

Good point.

Originally posted by h1a8
Superhuman because of the arm. Give me proof to these director comments. Also, give me proof that directors comments are allowed as evidence. Because in the comic forum, it's not.

I'll revisit the kick feat.

PM me and I will provide you a link where you can download CA:TWS Director's commentary, and timestamps to where the comments are made. The Directors are literally describing the character and portrayal they thought up and decided to put onscreen. You can't get a more informed statement than the people who actually thought up the portrayal in question. But, even without that, here. When the Russos talk about one of the ways they chose to show that BP was also superhuman, in CA:CW, is by being able to fight Winter Soldier (and successfully hold his own), even without his suit. At around the 4:20 mark:

YouTube video

And seriously, I have to wonder whether you even watched the entirety of the two movies WS is in, at this point, as there is tons of screen evidence to show these things. Just one more example, off the top of my head. During the highway fight scene from CA:TWS, un-enhanced humans have to attach grappling lines to the side of the bridge, to repel down to the ground below. Winter Soldier simply hops over the edge, and lands on a car with enough force to crush part of it, and just walks on, like he was skipping off a porch (and he had no armour or tech to help shield him from the drop). Nevermind that the Winter Soldier super-soldier program is a key plot point in CA:CW.

Edit: Also, if I give you proof of these Director comments, are you finally going to post proof of the 98mph back-catch claim you made previously?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
The people Winter Soldier didn't casually drop, and who managed to evade his blows, were elite individuals, who operate in a world where aliens, killer robots, magic etc. exist (i.e. the entire universe is more powerful). Those characters are portrayed as being beyond the average professional human fighter. They are shown as being the very best humanity can put out there, against all the various threats they face. Hell, someone like Black Widow has multiple durability feats that would put her into the realm of superhuman, by real life standards (grabbing onto a speeding Chitauri flier without tearing her arm off, dropping a couple dozen feet without injury during that same battle, fighting Hawkeye shortly after taking a swipe from the Hulk, getting flung like a ragdoll after riding on Hulk's back and getting right back up, in AoU, or shrugging off being in an extremely confined space as a grenade went off, with only a human to partially block the blast, which still sent them flying back with enough force to knock the door off an armoured vehicle). And you still haven't addressed things like Winter Soldier kicking a guy 20+ feet, something Batman has not done, and which is well beyond "peak human". Also, you are making claims about Bane, because he is "Master" of the LoS in a grounded universe, where everyone is human. And ignoring the fact that when he no-sold Batman's blows, it was a Batman who was hardly at his own peak. When Batman came back, at the end of the film, Bane was not simply no-selling all his hits.

I revisited all WS scenes. The kick feat is an outlier. In every other kick he did was of normal human strength. He hasn't koed any human with a punch with normal arm either. I challenge you to show me the scene because I just saw them all.

Those human characters are equal to professional fighters at best.

Originally posted by h1a8
On average, it would take WS more than 1 hit to ko a human adult male with a punch with human arm in a movie. Just look at his punch against Tony.

Batman, although not stronger, is not very far behind in strength of punches.
Reasonably, WS, on average, can probably punch 20-40% harder than Batman.
No selling a punch means that doubling the strike power will not ko the no seller.

Bane is faster than all real humans in fighting. He's a master in the league of shadows. You can't judge acting speed with real speed. Otherwise, many real professional fighters will embarrass WS and Cap. We use the suspension of disbelief along with the benchmark of how well they do against real humans.
WS is just as fast as real professional fighters (how he did against movie professional fighters) and just as skilled.

WS is peak human at best, Batman is slightly below peak human on average.

Originally posted by h1a8
I revisited all WS scenes. The kick feat is an outlier. In every other kick he did was of normal human strength. He hasn't koed any human with a punch with normal arm either. I challenge you to show me the scene because I just saw them all.

Those human characters are equal to professional fighters at best.

The fact that you say that proves you haven't. Before he kicks the one SHIELD pilot into the one quinjet, he KO's the other one with one punch from his human arm. And you said "at best", so you can drop your outlier nonsense.

LOL... So virtually featless LoS = "Beyond real world fighters".

Top members of SHIELD (which has tons of portrayals indicating the level of its agents, including showings of SHIELD agents holding their own against enhanced individuals) = "equal to professional fighters at best".

And, again, post all these showings you are using to claim Batman is "near peak human, on average". You have still yet to post more than the one backhand. Seriously, until you start posting proof equal to the proof you demand from others, no one is obligated to do shit with regards to your requests.

Originally posted by h1a8
On average, it would take WS more than 1 hit to ko a human adult male with a punch with human arm in a movie. Just look at his punch against Tony.

WS hit Tony with a straight punch to the body which floored Tony. And WS didn't even put his weight into it. So I don't know what you're talking about. He hits Bane in the face with a punch that strong and Bane isn't going to survive more than a couple.

Originally posted by h1a8
I revisited all WS scenes. The kick feat is an outlier. In every other kick he did was of normal human strength. He hasn't koed any human with a punch with normal arm either. I challenge you to show me the scene because I just saw them all.

Those human characters are equal to professional fighters at best.

Show me a clip of Batman KOing a human with a single punch.

Originally posted by Inhuman
Again speculation and imaginary feats and stats that you think Bane should have based on implied information is not valid.

This is the kicker. He is already trying to dismiss director's comments as not counting, before even hearing them, but he wants his personal opinion on what being a "Master" of the League of Shadows entails to be used as evidence in the debate. With that, he is basically implying that his opinions are more valid than statements from the people who made the films.

Edit: But hey, he is free to PM a mod and ask them which holds more weight. Director's comments, or a poster's opinion. Though, given his antics in this thread, he would likely try and twist the question to get the answer he wants.

Originally posted by h1a8
The thread is over. Everyone said WS wins on the first page (even me). No one has argued for Bane winning.

We are allowed to discuss other issues in a thread as long as everyone agrees with the outcome of the thread (the thread is over).

If you don't like the discussion we are having then
1. Ignore us
2. Create a new thread for the discussion
Or
3. Contact a mod to close this thread

Haha, 😆

Salty that you didn't understand the thread and got cornered and humiliated?

Now doing your usual bury-the-post tactic bu baiting ppl with your usual dumb logic.

Nah. I'll just keep bumping the fact that you've conceded that this is a spite thread that'll last no more than a few seconds.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
This is the kicker. He is already trying to dismiss director's comments as not counting, before even hearing them, but he wants his personal opinion on what being a "Master" of the League of Shadows entails to be used as evidence in the debate. With that, he is basically implying that his opinions are more valid than statements from the people who made the films.

Edit: But hey, he is free to PM a mod and ask them which holds more weight. Director's comments, or a poster's opinion. Though, given his antics in this thread, he would likely try and twist the question to get the answer he wants.

In Civil War they touch upon the Hydra super soldier serum thing even further with those other Super Soldiers in cryo freeze that got an even more potent experimental serum.

Originally posted by Inhuman
In Civil War they touch upon the Hydra super soldier serum thing even further with those other Super Soldiers in cryo freeze that got an even more potent experimental serum.

Exactly. The HYDRA super-soldier serum is literally a movie plot point. We even see Winter Soldier being sent to go retrieve the rest of it. And that's ignoring the fact that, even as far back as CA:TFA, we are shown that HYDRA was experimenting on Bucky, when they had him captured. And that's also ignoring the multiple screenfeats, across two films, which support it (even without the comments from the Russos).

But hey, just challenge him to a BZ with regards to Winter Soldier's enhanced status, versus being "peak human at best", and see how he responds.

TBH I'm convinced that he hasn't even seen these films and just has casually skimmed through a few YouTube clips