Bane Vs The Winter Soldier

Originally posted by h1a8
I proved it a long time ago in the WS Ozy thread. I used timestamps to prove it as wells as the distance between the cars. In some scenes the cars were barely moving at all.

I call BS on this. The most you did was repeat "they looked slow to me" and you focused on a single shot where the speed was difficult to quantify and then ignored the rest of the scene where the speed was much easier to quantify then kept repeating your opinion over and over.

I challenge you to a BZ on WS's running speed being easily superhuman.

Loser gets banned for 6 months.

@ H1. If you want to claim that Batman and Bane are faster than shown, due to what you consider implied skill from being LoS, then Bucky is close to Cap in strength, due to the implications of him also being a super-soldier (as well as the Russos' comments, plus the two of them being close in speed, durability etc.). If you don't want to acknowledge the fact that he is a super-soldier, like Cap, and therefore will have similar stats, then you can't argue that Bane and Batman are faster than shown, due to being LoS. Otherwise, it is a blatant double standard.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Wow, you are trying really hard. If you pause it after the punch, you can literally see that his shoulder line ends up around WS's waist height by the time they cut to the kick. Even with the camera angle, it shows that the guy was going down from one punch to the face.

Except those instances where the two physically grapple and match each other, until Winter Soldier's arm gives him the upper hand.

And LMAO at "going by screen feats". That's rich. Really. When earlier you were claiming that Batman and Bane were moving faster than actually shown onscreen, because they were LoS (thus implied speed, not actual screen feats), and tried to use "suspension of disbelief" as your so-called proof.

Except it did. He took the few hits they managed to land like nothing, before putting them down. Highly skilled humans landing 1 or 2 hits before getting dropped is not evidence for your cause. Again, Baleman has had problems with people like Joker. And I have repeatedly asked you for more. As have several others.

Batman never had problems with joker in a fair one on one situation.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
@ H1. If you want to claim that Batman and Bane are faster than shown, due to what you consider implied skill from being LoS, then Bucky is close to Cap in strength, due to the implications of him also being a super-soldier (as well as the Russos' comments, plus the two of them being close in speed, durability etc.). If you don't want to acknowledge the fact that he is a super-soldier, like Cap, and therefore will have similar stats, then you can't argue that Bane and Batman are faster than shown, due to being LoS. Otherwise, it is a blatant double standard.

Originally posted by h1a8
I argue that Cap is far more enhanced than Bucky. You still can't ignore on screen feats against humans.

Well, you are arguing directly against what Joe and Anthony Russo said. Plus, we have seen how they compare in areas other than strength, and it is very close. We've also seen elite humans hold out somewhat against Cap as well (like Batroc). Key point being elite. You know, the argument you keep trying to use for Bane and Batman to make them seem faster than their fighting feats suggest. Falcon lasted barely 5 seconds, couldn't land a hit, and got laid out. Tony, Black Widow and Agent 13 could barely land a handful of hits between the 3 of them, and all got dropped in under 30 seconds. So, you have no argument here.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I don't recall that, by all means repost the proofm

At 1:12 WS lands. You see the white car about 15 feet in front of him easily dodge him. You also see the black car about 10 feet feet behind the green car.

4 seconds later at 1:16 BP lands and WS is about 40 feet away. You can easily calculate his acceleration here.

At 1:20 you see them run ahead of a white car. If you look closely then you will see the white car moving like 10-15mph.

At 1:35 you see one car about 10 feet behind another car.
youtu.be/FETX_8Af-z0

The fact that he just said he could bench 200 lbs should be an obvious hint to everyone that he is trolling.

I mean, I know ppl are just bored at this point and the MvS has been slow recently. But yeah, you guys know this is just some kid doing bad logic baiting.

He knows his logic is bad and he knows he'll never be able to prove his point under any scrutiny. A single BZ and he'll run with his tail between his legs.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, you are arguing directly against what Joe and Anthony Russo said. Plus, we have seen how they compare in areas other than strength, and it is very close. We've also seen elite humans hold out somewhat against Cap as well (like Batroc). Key point being [B]elite. You know, the argument you keep trying to use for Bane and Batman to make them seem faster than their fighting feats suggest. Falcon lasted barely 5 seconds, couldn't land a hit, and got laid out. Tony, Black Widow and Agent 13 could barely land a handful of hits between the 3 of them, and all got dropped in under 30 seconds. So, you have no argument here. [/B]

Elite is meaningless. Professional fighters are elite too. But they are all human. That means that Cap isn't far from peak human.

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't see a ko. A knock down isn't a ko.
I have grappled with people far weaker than me. I can bench over 200lb where they less than 100lb. And I can't easily overpowered them. They hold there own for awhile. Have you ever grappled with a strong woman (wrestling)?

I generally don't try to pick fights with people much weaker than I am. The people I have grappled/clinch fought with, when I did things like Muay Thai, were all either my size, or larger. And I was fighting an uphill battle against the bigger guys, and had to work harder than them to not get out-muscled.

Originally posted by h1a8

Batman never had problems with joker in a fair one on one situation.

He had more problems with the Joker than Winter Soldier had with any of the people you have brought up.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
The fact that he just said he could bench 200 lbs should be an obvious hint to everyone that he is trolling.

I mean, I know ppl are just bored at this point and the MvS has been slow recently. But yeah, you guys know this is just some kid doing bad logic baiting.

He knows his logic is bad and he knows he'll never be able to prove his point under any scrutiny. A single BZ and he'll run with his tail between his legs.

200lbs is nothing. 10 years ago I could easily bench more than 300lbs when I played division 1 baseball. I was always an athlete and a martial artist.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I generally don't try to pick fights with people much weaker than I am. The people I have grappled/clinch fought with, when I did things like Muay Thai, were all either my size, or larger. And I was fighting an uphill battle against the bigger guys, and had to work harder than them to not get out-muscled.

He had more problems with the Joker than Winter Soldier had with any of the people you have brought up.

Fair enough. When I grappled weaker people it was either to train them or just rough housing playing around (foreplay).

I don't recall Batman having trouble without a plot device.

Originally posted by h1a8
At 1:12 WS lands. You see the white car about 15 feet in front of him easily dodge him. You also see the black car about 10 feet feet behind the green car.

4 seconds later at 1:16 BP lands and WS is about 40 feet away. You can easily calculate his acceleration here.

At 1:20 you see them run ahead of a white car. If you look closely then you will see the white car moving like 10-15mph.

At 1:35 you see one car about 10 feet behind another car.
youtu.be/FETX_8Af-z0

BS.

I challenge you to a BZ to prove that WS running speed is easily superhuman.

I can tear apart your biased "logic" there. But I refuse to waste my time arguing your opinions and biased interpretations.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
BS.

I challenge you to a BZ to prove that WS running speed is easily superhuman.

I can tear apart your biased "logic" there. But I refuse to waste my time arguing your opinions and biased interpretations.

Originally posted by h1a8
200lbs is nothing. 10 years ago I could easily bench more than 300lbs when I played division 1 baseball. I was always an athlete and a martial artist.

Yawn. BS and BS.

Originally posted by h1a8
opinions? I stated facts. I gave the timestamps. You can measure and see for yourself.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
BS.

I challenge you to a BZ to prove that WS running speed is easily superhuman.

I can tear apart your biased "logic" there. But I refuse to waste my time arguing your opinions and biased interpretations.

Originally posted by h1a8
There's nothing close about it. Character's stats fluctuate from scene to scene. WS doesn't get Caps feats. Just like if Thing was always shown to fight Namor as a peer then Thing doesn't get Namor's feats.

When did I try to assign Winter Soldier Cap's "feats"? Oh right, I didn't. Nice job trying to misrepresent my statement. I said that, based on them being close in other areas, it is implied that their strength would also be close. Like how they were knocking each other around with similar kinds of hits, and soaking it up in a similar way, in their one-on-one fights. Or taking falls from similar heights in a similar manner, on more than one occasion. Or how, during both the foot chases from CA:TWS and CA:CW, they were visibly close to each other in speed.

But hey, using your "stat fluctuation" logic, your Baleman backhand feat doesn't count either, seeing as it came from a different scene.

Originally posted by h1a8

Elite is meaningless. Professional fighters are elite too. But they are all human. That means that Cap isn't far from peak human.

Firstly, peak humans in the MCU are above RL peak humans. And people like BW, Agent 13 etc. are trained by SHIELD, which is arguably the top agency of its kind on MCU Earth. This is clearly and repeatedly shown on shows like Agents of SHIELD. But hey, if you want to play it like that, then being a "Master of the League of Shadows" is also meaningless. So, you either have to acknowledge both, or neither.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Yawn. BS and BS.

So you don't think I can bench 200lbs.?

You know that's weak as hell right. That's nothing. I live in the USA. It's a ton of males in the gym benches more than 200lb. Where are you from?

Originally posted by h1a8
So you don't think I can bench 200lbs.?

You know that's weak as hell right. That's nothing. I live in the USA. It's a ton of males in the gym benches more than 200lb. Where are you from?

Oh I know a ton of guys bench 200 lbs. Lived in Florida most of my University years we practically lived in the gym back then.

I just don't believe that you do.

Nice attempt at thread derailing/BZ avoidance tho. Can't believe I almost fell for it, but nah.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
BS.

I challenge you to a BZ to prove that WS running speed is easily superhuman.

I can tear apart your biased "logic" there. But I refuse to waste my time arguing your opinions and biased interpretations.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
When did I try to assign Winter Soldier Cap's "feats"? Oh right, I didn't. Nice job trying to misrepresent my statement. I said that, based on them being close in other areas, it is implied that their strength would also be close. Like how they were knocking each other around with similar kinds of hits, and soaking it up in a similar way, in their one-on-one fights. Or taking falls from similar heights in a similar manner, on more than one occasion. Or how, during both the foot chases from CA:TWS and CA:CW, they were visibly close to each other in speed.

But hey, using your "stat fluctuation" logic, your Baleman backhand feat doesn't count either, seeing as it came from a different scene.

Firstly, peak humans in the MCU are above RL peak humans. And people like BW, Agent 13 etc. are trained by SHIELD, which is arguably the top agency of its kind on MCU Earth. This is clearly and repeatedly shown on shows like Agents of SHIELD. But hey, if you want to play it like that, then being a "Master of the League of Shadows" is also meaningless. So, you either have to acknowledge both, or neither.

I disagree. Peak human has one definition. It's the upper echelon that a human being can POSSIBLY reach. There are no real life peak humans. Even Usain Bolt is not peak human in speed. It's still possible to run even faster.

Originally posted by h1a8
Fair enough. When I grappled weaker people it was either to train them or just rough housing playing around (foreplay).

I had to use better technique/skill to counter the strength advantage. So, either they have to be at least relatively close in strength, or Winter Soldier is so much better than Cap, ability-wise, that he can use pure skill and technique to counter a massive strength edge. Do you believe Winter Soldier is a much more skilled fighter than Cap?

Originally posted by h1a8

I don't recall Batman having trouble without a plot device.

By those same standards, neither did Winter Soldier. Getting tagged/dodged a small handful of times, before dropping someone in a few seconds, is not having trouble. That's called slightly delaying the inevitable.