Bane Vs The Winter Soldier

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Oh I know a ton of guys bench 200 lbs. Lived in Florida most of my University years we practically lived in the gym back then.

I just don't believe that you do.

Nice attempt at thread derailing/BZ avoidance tho. Can't believe I almost fell for it, but nah.

Wow, you don't believe I can bench press a weak ass 200lb. Im insulted. If I didn't want to keep my identity a secret then I'll post videos of me doing it. I have maxed over 300lbs on multiple occasions. I can hit 225 like 10-15 times on a good day. I was a division 1 baseball player. I played outfield and was a power hitter. I had to stay strong.

I can see if I claimed 315 or more (which is rare). But almost every male I know can bench 4 plates. That's standard.

Originally posted by h1a8
I disagree. Peak human has one definition. It's the upper echelon that a human being can POSSIBLY reach. There are no real life peak humans. Even Usain Bolt is not peak human in speed. It's still possible to run even faster.

Then how can you define Batman as a "peak human" and Bane as having "superhuman" durability? Also, that does not address the fact that SHIELD, on MCU Earth, is essentially an equivalent to the League of Shadows, in a different universe. Both are considered some of the top training grounds for combat skill/ability on their respective worlds. And, going from that, we have seen how much that helped them (they still got dropped in a few seconds each). So, what evidence is there that top fighters from the LoS would do any better?

Originally posted by h1a8
Wow, you don't believe I can bench press a weak ass 200lb. Im insulted. If I didn't want to keep my identity a secret then I'll post videos of me doing it. I have maxed over 300lbs on multiple occasions. I can hit 225 like 10-15 times on a good day. I was a division 1 baseball player. I played outfield and was a power hitter. I had to stay strong.

I can see if I claimed 315 or more (which is rare). But almost every male I know can bench 4 plates. That's standard.

Yawn.

You're a weak-ass debater so it wouldn't surprise me, really.

Now either accept the BZ or concede.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I had to use better technique/skill to counter the strength advantage. So, either they have to be at least relatively close in strength, or Winter Soldier is so much better than Cap, ability-wise, that he can use pure skill and technique to counter a massive strength edge. Do you believe Winter Soldier is a much more skilled fighter than Cap?

By those same standards, neither did Winter Soldier. Getting tagged/dodged a small handful of times, before dropping someone in a few seconds, is not having trouble. That's called slightly delaying the inevitable.

Grappling is complicated. I don't know why I can't easily overpowered a much weaker person but it's true. Maybe it has something to do with the locking mechanism of the joints and muscles.

Anyway, WS didn't put down the blonde. He also didn't put Widow down in a true h2h fight. Basically they had BW do the leg grab Thing. If she fought him toe to toe then things would have been different.

Originally posted by h1a8
IAnd I can't easily overpowered them. They hold there own for awhile. Have you ever grappled with a strong woman (wrestling)?

No means NO!

😠

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Then how can you define Batman as a "peak human" and Bane as having "superhuman" durability? Also, that does not address the fact that SHIELD, on MCU Earth, is essentially an equivalent to the League of Shadows, in a different universe. Both are considered some of the top training grounds for combat skill/ability on their respective worlds. And, going from that, we have seen how much that helped them (they still got dropped in a few seconds each). So, what evidence is there that top fighters from the LoS would do any better?

Assuming Shield is equivalent to the league of shadows. Then it proves Bane is fast and skilled enough to defend himself against WS. But his durability is greater due to him no selling Batman hits. I don't see any shield agent no selling Batman's haymakers.

WS wins over Bane. But not in a few seconds. That's not fair to Bane at all.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
No means NO!

😠

Originally posted by h1a8
At 1:12 WS lands. You see the white car about 15 feet in front of him easily dodge him. You also see the black car about 10 feet feet behind the green car.

4 seconds later at 1:16 BP lands and WS is about 40 feet away. You can easily calculate his acceleration here.

At 1:20 you see them run ahead of a white car. If you look closely then you will see the white car moving like 10-15mph.

At 1:35 you see one car about 10 feet behind another car.
youtu.be/FETX_8Af-z0

Seeing as your proof involves several numbers you made up, I'll wait until a non-biased source confirms your numbers.

BTW, don't think we haven't noticed that you're trying to use shown speed for WS, all the while saying we should ignore shown speed for Bane and Miyagi and use implied speed.

Originally posted by h1a8
Grappling is complicated. I don't know why I can't easily overpowered a much weaker person but it's true. Maybe it has something to do with the locking mechanism of the joints and muscles.

It involves body position, limb position, using leverage etc. i.e. using techniques the other person isn't, to counter their natural advantage. For example, if a guy who is stronger than I am wants to grab me, and spin/throw me to the ground, I know that if I force one of my legs between one of his, widening his stance, which screws with his own footing/foundation, he will have a much harder time doing so (Seriously, you can test this. Get a friend to try and toss you once without doing so, while just resisting with pure strength, then position your leg between his while resisting, and you will both notice the difference). Or if a guy stronger than I am grabs me by the throat, and tries to choke me, trying to pull his arms away from me will be pretty useless. But if I grab his wrists, and pull outwards/backwards with my own arms (therefore also using my shoulder/back muscles against basically just his forearms/hands), it is much more likely to succeed.

Originally posted by h1a8

Anyway, WS didn't put down the blonde. He also didn't put Widow down in a true h2h fight. Basically they had BW do the leg grab Thing. If she fought him toe to toe then things would have been different.

They tag-teamed him right at the beginning, using H2H. They were throwing strikes and kicks. He blocked Agent 13's kicks (except the one, which was an immediate follow up to a low-blow from BW), before casually throwing her ass through a table. And that is the way Black Widow fights. She always uses those kinds of moves, and it has been successful for her on numerous occasions. Hell, the one time she tried to just go strike for strike against someone (Crossbones), it ended really badly for her. Seriously, just look at her fights.

Originally posted by h1a8
200lbs is nothing. 10 years ago I could easily bench more than 300lbs when I played division 1 baseball. I was always an athlete and a martial artist.

Prove you can bench 200lbs.

Originally posted by h1a8
Batman has done some things that's possibly borderline superhuman (hence peak human).

Assuming Shield is equivalent to the league of shadows. Then it proves Bane is fast and skilled enough to defend himself against WS. But his durability is greater due to him no selling Batman hits. I don't see any shield agent no selling Batman's haymakers.

WS wins over Bane. But not in a few seconds. That's not fair to Bane at all.

Again, what is so great about Batman's punches? Tons and tons of action stars have KOed people with one hit that are regular cops or military guys. Especially fodder.
In the real world boxers or people in street fights KO people in 1 punch. Doesnt mean they are peak human or close to it.

I don't see how that makes Batman's punches greater than regular fighters or military men that are not peak human.

WS on the other hand has tons of superhuman feats (not including the ones with his metal arm)

Originally posted by h1a8
Batman has done some things that's possibly borderline superhuman (hence peak human).

So has people like Black Widow.

Originally posted by h1a8

Assuming Shield is equivalent to the league of shadows. Then it proves Bane is fast and skilled enough to defend himself against WS. But his durability is greater due to him no selling Batman hits. I don't see any shield agent no selling Batman's haymakers.

Firstly, when he no-sold Batman's hits, Bruce was in poor condition. When Batman had some time to train and get closer to his previous levels, his hits had a far more notable effect. Also, have you watched Agents of SHIELD?

Originally posted by h1a8

WS wins over Bane. But not in a few seconds. That's not fair to Bane at all.

Let's say he lasts more than a few seconds (a claim I, myself, never made). That still doesn't constitute as giving Winter Soldier serious trouble.

Anyway, I think we should just agree to disagree here. I am not going to budge my stance. You are not going to budge yours. We can keep repeating the same shit over and over, getting nowhere slowly, or we can accept that we have different views on this match.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
So has people like Black Widow.

Firstly, when he no-sold Batman's hits, Bruce was in poor condition. When Batman had some time to train and get closer to his previous levels, his hits had a far more notable effect. Also, have you watched Agents of SHIELD?

Let's say he lasts more than a few seconds (a claim I, myself, never made). That still doesn't constitute as giving Winter Soldier serious trouble.

Anyway, I think we should just agree to disagree here. I am not going to budge my stance. You are not going to budge yours. We can keep repeating the same shit over and over, getting nowhere slowly, or we can accept that we have different views on this match.

You could always challenge him to a BZ and if he refuses you'll know that he is admitting you're right.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You could always challenge him to a BZ and if he refuses you'll know that he is admitting you're right.

I'm too bored of this discussion, at this point, to even bother with that. It stopped being interesting like 8 pages ago already.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I'm too bored of this discussion, at this point, to even bother with that. It stopped being interesting like 8 pages ago already.

Essentially, h1's entire debating tech is to just outlast his opponent by using multiple cheap debating weaseling tactics. One of which is playing "logic tag" by using a constantly shifting standard of logic and proof (aka using double standards in proof and logic).

Best way to handle him is to stop moving the debate forward unless he accepts the BZ. That way, he HAS to adhere to acceptable and fair logic/proof standards. But we all know he would never accept it as he KNOWS he his logic would never stand up to any kind of fair scrutiny.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Essentially, h1's entire debating tech is to just outlast his opponent by using multiple cheap debating weaseling tactics. One of which is playing "logic tag" by using a constantly shifting standard of logic and proof (aka using double standards in proof and logic).

Best way to handle him is to stop moving the debate forward unless he accepts the BZ. That way, he HAS to adhere to acceptable and fair logic/proof standards. But we all know he would never accept it as he KNOWS he his logic would never stand up to any kind of fair scrutiny.

Eh, I can't be arsed at this point. But, before I go, I will just post this, which shows that Winter Soldier did indeed put Agent 13 down. At 3:08 he tosses her through the table. At around 3:10, she is clearly visible on the ground, not moving:

YouTube video

It also further shows the difference between highly trained humans and enhanced humans. Unlike the fairly useless couple of blows the others landed, T'Challa alone lands multiple strikes. Probably more strikes than the rest of them combined (the gun hit, knee, low-blow and kick. BW elbowed WS in the head a few times, but he wasn't even trying to avoid them), and they actually have an effect on Bucky.

I might revisit this thread when H1 eventually posts multiple specific examples of the Batman feats several people have asked him to provide. So far, he has just stuck with vague, un-quantifiable statements, and a single one-shot KO strike.

Yeah, anyway back to my BZ challenge to h1:

Originally posted by Nibedicus
BS.

I challenge you to a BZ to prove that WS running speed is easily superhuman.

I can tear apart your biased "logic" there. But I refuse to waste my time arguing your opinions and biased interpretations.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Yeah, anyway back to my BZ challenge to h1:

isn't it funny how h1 went to such lengths to lowball WS's shown speed when his stance on Bane and Miyagi is that we should ignore shown speed and rely solely on implied speed?

Originally posted by Silent Master
isn't it funny how h1 went to such lengths to lowball WS's shown speed when his stance on Bane and Miyagi is that we should ignore shown speed and rely solely on implied speed?

Yeap. H1 loves them double standards.