Baleman vs Winter Soldier

Originally posted by Silent Master
His claim would also work if he's never seen the movies and is just making things up.

The thing is that fact checking these fights/feats is easy. But he has shown more than once that he is far too lazy to bother.

Edit: The more I read his "reasoning" the more I want to facepalm. Cap's skill has been proven repeatedly, against a variety of different enemies. By trying to assign WS's performance up to being enhanced, he is saying that skill makes almost no difference in how a fight goes. That would be like saying that if you took one of the top fighters in the world, and made them fight someone who had the exact same physical statistics, but none of the same fighting capability, the unskilled opponent would still be able to hold their own just fine. And that is just straight-up retarded.

Going further from his logic, Phil Coulson should beat any human fighter, regardless of skill level, because he has an enhanced robot forearm.

Does anyone think Baleman MIGHT have a ghost of a chance if he's given one sided prep time?

But yeah, otherwise, poor Baleman.

Originally posted by Silent Master
h1 appears to be arguing that Baleman's haymakers >>>> hits from Iron-man.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
The thing is that fact checking these fights/feats is easy. But he has shown more than once that he is far too lazy to bother.

Edit: The more I read his "reasoning" the more I want to facepalm. Cap's skill has been proven repeatedly, against a variety of different enemies. By trying to assign WS's performance up to being enhanced, he is saying that skill makes almost no difference in how a fight goes. That would be like saying that if you took one of the top fighters in the world, and made them fight someone who had the exact same physical statistics, but none of the same fighting capability, the unskilled opponent would still be able to hold their own just fine. And that is just straight-up retarded.

Cap>>>>>>>>>WS in h2h skill.
So WS hanging with Cap for a little bit doesn't change that. WS used knives and guns mostly against Cap. In pure h2h he lose everytime. And without his metal arm (but still enhanced) he would get stomped easily.

I didn't say skill wasn't a factor. Being superhuman is a much bigger factor. Think about it. Superman could easily beat Cap or WS.
Also let's say WS had far greater skill than Cap but only had human stats. Wouldn't he get one shot? He wouldn't have the durability to take a hit or speed to not get hit.

Let's BZ, the topic will be your claim that Cap >>>>>>>>> WS in skill.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Let's BZ, the topic will be your claim that Cap >>>>>>>>> WS in skill.

Originally posted by h1a8
Cap>>>>>>>>>WS in h2h skill.
So WS hanging with Cap for a little bit doesn't change that. WS used knives and guns mostly against Cap. In pure h2h he lose everytime. And without his metal arm (but still enhanced) he would get stomped easily.

lol Except it's not "a little bit", Cap mostly used his shield when Bucky was using other weapons, and he got the better of Cap during their last one-on-one H2H encounter. He very clearly did NOT lose that one. Anyone who actually watched CA:CW knows this (which I highly doubt you have, despite your claims). So, that kills your whole argument. A metal arm means nothing if you don't have the actual skill to use it effectively and land hits with it. And that's also without even considering multiple director's comments, the guys who made the film and chose how the characters were going to be portrayed.

Originally posted by h1a8

I didn't say skill wasn't a factor. Being superhuman is a much bigger factor. Think about it. Superman could easily beat Cap or WS.
Also let's say WS had far greater skill than Cap but only had human stats. Wouldn't he get one shot? He wouldn't have the durability to take a hit or speed to not get hit.

Superman has nothing to do with this. Gap between Superman and Cap/WS >>>>> Gap between Cap/WS and a normal person. So, your comparison is just dumb. And if Cap could land a single, clean hit, then it is possible. But that doesn't mean it would happen immediately. Exceptional human opponents, like Batroc, have shown that avoiding some hits is possible. And LOL, thank you for again proving my point. When their enhanced speed was brought up in other instances, especially in comparison to Batman and Bane, you kept claiming that their speed and reflexes aren't really enhanced, despite what others said, but now you are trying to use the enhanced speed thing when it's against WS. Your double standards are showing again.

Originally posted by h1a8
I'm referring to h2h skill, not tactics, weapons, gadgets, bombs, etc.
WS only managed to hang with Cap mainly because of knives, durability, and his metal arm. Cap was still able to win despite that. Take the metal arm away and weapons then Cap would easily own WS.

Then let's BZ skill.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Then let's BZ skill.

Don't you love how he repeatedly ignores the last fight Cap and Bucky had, even making claims that directly contradict what happened in it? Almost like he hasn't seen the fight in question.

I honestly believe that he hasn't seen any of these movies.

He hasn't. He forgets far too much to have actually seen anything. It's just youtube clips without context.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I honestly believe that he hasn't seen any of these movies.

At this point, I have strong doubts myself. Not to mention that his argument is silly in anyways. Because, using that same logic, someone could say that Cap only survived those encounters because of his own enhanced (and, according to H1, "far more" enhanced) stats and vibranium shield.

Originally posted by KingD19
He hasn't. He forgets far too much to have actually seen anything. It's just youtube clips without context.

And not even all of them, or he would have known about the last H2H fight between Cap and Bucky, which clearly ended in Bucky's favour. Even in their final fight of CA:TWS, Steve only got the opening the go for the take down and choke hold because Winter Soldier took his eyes off Steve, while making a grab for the targeting chip Cap was planning on putting in the helicarrier.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Don't you love how he repeatedly ignores the last fight Cap and Bucky had, even making claims that directly contradict what happened in it? Almost like he hasn't seen the fight in question.

Originally posted by h1a8
The last fight proves everything I said perfectly.

LOL It proves the opposite. You claimed Bucky loses H2H every time, yet he overwhelmed, pushed back and BFR'd Steve (while connecting more strikes than Steve did in the process) in under 15 seconds, without using any guns or knives.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
LOL It proves the opposite. You claimed Bucky loses H2H every time, yet he overwhelmed, pushed back and BFR'd Steve (while connecting more strikes than Steve did in the process) in under 15 seconds, without using any guns or knives.

h1 doesn't understand how proof works.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
LOL It proves the opposite. You claimed Bucky loses H2H every time, yet he overwhelmed, pushed back and BFR'd Steve (while connecting more strikes than Steve did in the process) in under 15 seconds, without using any guns or knives.

Cap was trying to control the chip (it wasn't a complete fair fight)
Cap was shot in the side (he was injured and not 100%)
WS didn't beat Cap (which makes everything you said irrelevant)
Cap won in the end (which disproves your entire argument)

So how does it prove the opposite again?

Originally posted by h1a8
Cap was trying to control the chip (it wasn't a complete fair fight)
Cap was shot in the side (he was injured and not 100%)
WS didn't beat Cap (which makes everything you said irrelevant)
Cap won in the end (which disproves your entire argument)

So how does it prove the opposite again?

LMAO, so you haven't seen CA:CW. Thanks for proving this once and for all.