Originally posted by Sin I AM
Saint don't report him it's childish. Carver was obviously fishing. Let it goGreat job lob u could've saved us several pages of a one sided discussion.
Originally posted by carver9
My question was honest though and I enjoyed the path it was going. It's ok, I resolved that problem.LOB post was brilliant.
As, [b]THE KING OF CANON, it is both my job and responsibility to enlighten my KMC brethren![/b]
Originally posted by Sin I AM
You're asking which matters more in a versus scenario...a lifting feat or a combat feat? In a fighting situation which is more important a non fighting example or a fighting example? Hypothetically speaking whats more viable someone doing something related to what you're asking or someone doing the exact opposite? If i wanted to see whats a more effective way of shooting myself in the face would i google examples of people shooting themselves in the face or would i watch porn?
I already know the answer. I focus on combat showings but I'm trying to see if others are on the same page.
This is an easy issue to resolve.
When using comparative feats against other characters (abc logic) then it should be assumed that the characters were operating at average levels in that comic (unless other evidence exists). For example, let's assume Superman's typical average strength is around 10,000 tons. Anyone that matches him in a comic, with no known upper bounds to their strength, then we can assume they are equal to Superman's average.
It by no means imply that they have Superman's top objective feats. So the statement, "since Orion matched Superman and since Superman once lifted the Earth then Orion can lift the Earth" is extremely false.
A character's feats can be used to HELP establish an average in order to use abc logic.
With that said, IMO Orion is a peer to Hulk in strength on average. So other factors would be considered who wins a particular kind of fight.
Originally posted by h1a8
This is an easy issue to resolve.
When using comparative feats against other characters (abc logic) then it should be assumed that the characters were operating at average levels in that comic (unless other evidence exists). For example, let's assume Superman's typical average strength is around 10,000 tons. Anyone that matches him in a comic, with no known upper bounds to their strength, then we can assume they are equal to Superman's average.It by no means imply that they have Superman's top objective feats. So the statement, "since Orion matched Superman and since Superman once lifted the Earth then Orion can lift the Earth" is extremely false.
A character's feats can be used to HELP establish an average in order to use abc logic.
With that said, IMO Orion is a peer to Hulk in strength on average. So other factors would be considered who wins a particular kind of fight.
So how would we know if someone fought Superman at his best? It's not like Superman lifted a planet before facing Doomsday. So are we to say that Doomsday fought an average Superman?
Originally posted by Sin I AMI get what you're saying. But i keep telling u lifting feats dont mean squat. Beast has been shown to uproot trees, lift tons of rock and toss objects for miles yet despite his superhuman lifting feats he is less than nearly EVERY street level character. Grifter, Castle, Widow, Jason Todd damn near any one of those would take him for a maj. Y? Because fights matter, cheese dont.
If a physically stronger character grabs hold of a physically weaker one that could decide a fight right there.
Look at Bane vs Any Robin for example.
I'm not saying physical strength is the end all of fights. I'm saying it's a factor that pops up when a stronger character grabs hold of a weaker one.
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
If a physically stronger character grabs hold of a physically weaker one that could decide a fight right there.
Look at Bane vs Any Robin for example.
I'm not saying physical strength is the end all of fights. I'm saying it's a factor that pops up when a stronger character grabs hold of a weaker one.
Y would a physically weaker opponent allow that? Plus there isn't a Robin alive that could match Bane in ma so your point is moot. He's above them physically and skill wise.
A good example is Herc/Thor. They are rough equals stat wise but Herc strikes harder, he's a far better fighter. Thor relies TOO heavily on mjolnir. Theyve dedicated his current arc to just how worthless he is without it...it doesn't matter how many Serpents you lift or how many cities you pick up if your punches dont pack that power you will get dropped. Hulk on the other hand will lift mountains all day and still floor you with a punch...he's the exception along with a few others
Originally posted by -Pr-
As long as you don't focus on combat showings to the point that it's at the expense of other showings, that's fine.
👆
Otherwise, Squirrel Girl, Batman, Cap, Deathstroke all dominate. Iron Fist took Hiroim's punches. Shang Chi fought evenly with Red Hulk.
Yet, we're meant to disregard them as 'haxx', 'outliers', 'PIS'.
Why?
Because they don't have the feats to support their combat showings.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Do you really think that in a hand to hand fight, Beast would get stomped by people like Castle and Jason Todd?
Phuck yes! Castle would obliterate him. Todd would skin him and they are mid streets imo. Move up one notch to high street and Cap would one shot him and it wouldn't even be considered pis.
Originally posted by -Pr-
As long as you don't focus on combat showings to the point that it's at the expense of other showings, that's fine.
Agreed. There is a time when yes, lifting etc...does decide a fight but when you have fights like Hulk vs Konvikt, Superman vs Captain Marvel, Colossus vs Ulik, that is when a lil common sense come into play. Strength fts will not decide a battle between Hulk and Konvikt. Hulk fts crap all over Konvikt but his battles prove he could possibly beat Hulk. Superman vs Captain marvel. Superman fts crap all over Captain Marvel but we know they are equals. Colossus vs Ulik. Colossus fts doo doo all over Ulik fts when it comes to lifting etc, but we know Ulik would curb him. Hope you understand what I am saying.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Phuck yes! Castle would obliterate him. Todd would skin him and they are mid streets imo. Move up one notch to high street and Cap would one shot him and it wouldn't even be considered pis.
That just feels... Wrong, to me. Both that it wouldn't happen, and that even if it would, it shouldn't. Maybe I'm in the minority, but that's me.
Originally posted by carver9
Agreed. There is a time when yes, lifting etc...does decide a fight but when you have fights like Hulk vs Konvikt, Superman vs Captain Marvel, Colossus vs Ulik, that is when a lil common sense come into play. Strength fts will not decide a battle between Hulk and Konvikt. Hulk fts crap all over Konvikt but his battles prove he could possibly beat Hulk. Superman vs Captain marvel. Superman fts crap all over Captain Marvel but we know they are equals. Colossus vs Ulik. Colossus fts doo doo all over Ulik fts when it comes to lifting etc, but we know Ulik would curb him. Hope you understand what I am saying.
lol those are some shitty examples, to be fair.
Originally posted by Sin I AMThat's crazy. In h2h with no gear beast should beat Castle comfortably. Todd would give a better fight but still lose.
Phuck yes! Castle would obliterate him. Todd would skin him and they are mid streets imo. Move up one notch to high street and Cap would one shot him and it wouldn't even be considered pis.
Originally posted by carver9
What in the world. Those examples was on point.
No, they weren't. Colossus and Ulik aren't even in the same tiers. There's absolutely no reason to even compare the two.
Superman and Marvel? Superman has him beat in fights and in non-combat showings.
Is this thread not supposed to be about characters that are more ambiguous?
and el oh ****ing el at using Konvikt and Hulk together.