Originally posted by Juntai
Doomsday was bony from the start, but they got more pronounced and sharper as he needed them. This is part of his adaptation. We also saw in Hunter Prey where used his bones to cover his ears momentarily when he wanted.There is zero evidence he was less.
Not when he came out of the ground he wasn't. We saw his bones starting to bulge out from under his glove while he was punching away at the box he was in, when he reached the surface there were no bone bulges on his shoulders, knees, elbows or the other hand. He had those protrusions when he fought the GL corp, he didn't when he busted out of the box. Ergo, he was different.
Goober you are not known to make things up. Remember writer's intentions is really what's the case. The writer never intended for things to be the way you are speculating. DD was intended to be as powerful as he always was before his death (pre DOS). Otherwise the writer would have made it clear that DD wasn't as powerful in DOS as he was before his death due to him not having absorbed enough sunlight.
Originally posted by darthgooberWe have direct evidence it's linked to his adaptation in both DoS and in HP.
Not when he came out of the ground he wasn't. We saw his bones starting to bulge out from under his glove while he was punching away at the box he was in, when he reached the surface there were no bone bulges on his shoulders, knees, elbows or the other hand. He had those protrusions when he fought the GL corp, he didn't when he busted out of the box. Ergo, he was different.
Ergo. No evidence.
Originally posted by h1a8
Goober you are not known to make things up. Remember writer's intentions is really what's the case. The writer never intended for things to be the way you are speculating. DD was intended to be as powerful as he always was before his death (pre DOS). Otherwise the writer would have made it clear that DD wasn't as powerful in DOS as he was before his death due to him not having absorbed enough sunlight.
Originally posted by darthgooberand in another bit of evidence of sun as a catalyst when GLs had SBP and yellow sun hit him he killed 50 of them instantly.
No, but I'd say she was doing better than the GL corp.
And Superboy the Teen Titan did much better than them.
Doomsday wasn't going all out yet.
Originally posted by Juntai
and in another bit of evidence of sun as a catalyst when GLs had SBP and yellow sun hit him he killed 50 of them instantly.And Superboy the Teen Titan did much better than them.
Doomsday wasn't going all out yet.
And saying that DD wasn't going all out... the guy's destruction personified who's ALWAYS going for the kill. He never going anything shy of "all out".
Originally posted by darthgooberYou have zero evidence he was any weaker. Only that he was using his bones as needed. Just like covering his ears. Get some evidence he was weaker or drop it.
And his addaption was evidently different in the beginning of the DOS arc. Ergo, he wasn't the same coming out of the ground and he'd taken a "step back" so to speak.
Originally posted by darthgooberHe definitely took DOS DD in consideration. Otherwise he would have made clear the difference in power between the two or established some principle that DD is always weaker when first coming alive than he is right before death.
Yes but the GL one shot was released AFTER the DOS saga and the Hunter Prey Saga. Either the writer took DD's established characterazation into account when he wrote it, or he totally ignored it which mean that the one shot itself should be ignored.
Originally posted by Juntai
You have zero evidence he was any weaker. Only that he was using his bones as needed. Just like covering his ears. Get some evidence he was weaker or drop it.
Originally posted by h1a8
He definitely took DOS DD in consideration. Otherwise he would have made clear the difference in power between the two or established some principle that DD is always weaker when first coming alive than he is right before death.
Anyway, it's established (Up to HP) that DD always gets more powerful each time he comes back from the dead. He becomes stronger and more resistant against damage.
Originally posted by darthgooberonce again reserves are independent from sun as a catalyst to power.
I'm not going to drop it, logical deduction is a valid basis for debating. We know that DD is a solar battery similar to all Kryptonians, we know that his solar reserves were obviously gone when he "died" before being boxed up and sent to Earth, we know that he emerged from the ground in a physically less evolved form than he was in when he fought the GL corp. That's plenty basis to doubt that he was as powerful as he was before without some feats in the DOS arc on par with tearing through the GL corp and a taking on a Guardian.
Red sun shuts off access to solar power but you can burn reserve to keep fighting till gone
Yellow sun is access to power. We've seen kyrptonians time and again go zero to one hundred from nothing.
Doomsday has been shown to use his bones as part of adaptation. Not as any identifier of power.
Either way, he was in full go by story end when Superman realized he would have to cut loose and drop his mental blocks and dig into a level power he never had before to stop Doomsday.
If you want to suggest his actual power was any weaker, you need proof.
Originally posted by h1a8
Also in HP, DD was shown dead with full protrusions the whole time. And he had full protrusions before DOS. Being dead doesn't take away his protrusions.
It's simply artist error to not have his protrusions shown at first or intentional to not reveal his true form until later.
The fact of the matter is that when the DOS saga came out, NO ONE(including the writers) actually knew what direction DD was going to be taken. He was simply the mysterious guy that was created solely to kill Supes. Everything released since the DOS saga has been purposed towards explaining the guy in the original arc. That's why later revelations about the source of his powers are so important.
Originally posted by Juntai
once again reserves are independent from sun as a catalyst to power.Red sun shuts off access to solar power but you can burn reserve to keep fighting till gone
Yellow sun is access to power. We've seen kyrptonians time and again go zero to one hundred from nothing.Doomsday has been shown to use his bones as part of adaptation. Not as any identifier of power.
Either way, he was in full go by story end when Superman realized he would have to cut loose and drop his mental blocks and dig into a level power he never had before to stop Doomsday.
If you want to suggest his actual power was any weaker, you need proof.
Again, I fully acknowledge that the whole thing is portrayed inconsistently. Do you deny that Supes has been rendered weakened(but not powerless) when his solar energy was evidently only partially drained? Do you deny that there are instances of him being rendered totally powerless instantly when exposed to red sunlight?
And while DD's bones are subject to his adaptive ability, it's not like their existence is dependent upon immediate need. It's not like they disappear when he's not using them, but apparently they DID disappear(or where destroyed) before he was boxed up. That suggest that he was physically less evolved than he had been before.
Also, you never answered in regards to whether or not that scene from the novel ever happened in the comics.
Originally posted by darthgooberAll these posts and still no proof that Doomsday was weaker.
Again, I fully acknowledge that the whole thing is portrayed inconsistently. Do you deny that Supes has been rendered weakened(but not powerless) when his solar energy was evidently only partially drained? Do you deny that there are instances of him being rendered totally powerless instantly when exposed to red sunlight?And while DD's bones are subject to his adaptive ability, it's not like their existence is dependent upon immediate need. It's not like they disappear when he's not using them, but apparently they DID disappear(or where destroyed) before he was boxed up. That suggest that he was physically less evolved than he had been before.
Also, you never answered in regards to whether or not that scene from the novel ever happened in the comics.
Your whole argument suddenly became hinged on bony protrusions we know he grow as needed. You have not provided a shred of evidence they are linked to his overall power.
And even so he was full go by story end.
So it's useless on two levels. Because you admit he had his power already or you admit he grew to it by the battle in metropolis against Superman anyway.
And as for the novel vs comics the proof is the power. Doomsday was stronger than Darkseid - someone Supes hadn't beat up to that point.
Also we know his level from his feats, whereas they mentioned the other heroes
weren't present because they were dealing with worldwide destruction from earthquakes and tsunamis and the like because of the shockwaves they were producing. This is a million times any previous showing.
Then in the wake of his return his feats became greater as he realized how much power he had access to.
Originally posted by Juntai
All these posts and still no proof that Doomsday was weaker.Your whole argument suddenly became hinged on bony protrusions we know he grow as needed. You have not provided a shred of evidence they are linked to his overall power.
And even so he was full go by story end.
So it's useless on two levels. Because you admit he had his power already or you admit he grew to it by the battle in metropolis against Superman anyway.
And as for the novel vs comics the proof is the power. Doomsday was stronger than Darkseid - someone Supes hadn't beat up to that point.
Also we know his level from his feats, whereas they mentioned the other heroes
weren't present because they were dealing with worldwide destruction from earthquakes and tsunamis and the like because of the shockwaves they were producing. This is a million times any previous showing.Then in the wake of his return his feats became greater as he realized how much power he had access to.
And in regards to my question about the novel, I'm in no way saying that it trumps(or even equals) what occurred on panel. I'm simply asking if the scene where the scientist mentioned that Supes's HV depletes his solar reserves particularly fast ever took place in a comic?
Anyway, we're going to have to pick this up tomorrow cause I have plans tonight. But we definitely need to continue it later because it's a discussion I've been wanting to have for a while. Nice going head to head with you again... feels just like the old days lol