Originally posted by h1a8
In general, supporting weight and lifting weight are two different things. To lift a weight requires force overcoming that weight. The muscles supply this force.Anyway, hitting will give MORE force than lifting. You are arguing that they are not the same (you are creating a strawman). Kara lifted the key casually with one arm. This implies that she can punch with much more force. It will be fairly dumb to casually lift someone with one arm and yet can't apply that same level of force towards punching.
Your argument is outright busted by the fact that people actually punch with more force (PSI) than they can lift with the same arm (even people with bad technique).
So it's a strawman to point out that the strength of a strike is different from lifting strength? LBS is not the same thing as PSI. You can't simply say that just because I can lift 50 lbs. then I can hit with 50 PSI or more. And it is also incorrect to think that the amount of strength necessary to lift 50 lbs. is the same amount of strength necessary to punch at 50 PSI.
Your average fit woman can generate a 100 PSI punch, that doesn't mean she can curl a 100 pound dumbbell. Your correlation between lifting weight and punching strength is completely off.
If we were to follow your logic then we'd end up saying that powerlifters can punch much stronger than heavyweight boxers. Is this your stance?
Originally posted by FrothByte
So it's a strawman to point out that the strength of a strike is different from lifting strength? LBS is not the same thing as PSI. You can't simply say that just because I can lift 50 lbs. then I can hit with 50 PSI or more. And it is also incorrect to think that the amount of strength necessary to lift 50 lbs. is the same amount of strength necessary to punch at 50 PSI.Your average fit woman can generate a 100 PSI punch, that doesn't mean she can curl a 100 pound dumbbell. Your correlation between lifting weight and punching strength is completely off.
If we were to follow your logic then we'd end up saying that powerlifters can punch much stronger than heavyweight boxers. Is this your stance?
"Your average fit woman can generate a 100 PSI punch, that doesn't mean she can curl a 100 pound dumbbell. Your correlation between lifting weight and punching strength is completely off."
This is faulty logic. I'm claiming that, "if P then Q" (A woman lifting 100lb will hit with more than 100PSI). I'm not claiming the converse, "if Q then P" is true (A woman hitting with 100PSI means that she can lift 100lb.). You are basically defeating the argument "if Q then P". This is a fallacy.
Hitting with 50PSI doesn't mean you can lift 50lbs. But lifting 50lb does prove that you can strike with MORE than 50PSI. This is because you have momentum added to the force push.
A heavyweight can't hit with the same force as a professional boxer but BOTH can hit with a force larger than what they can lift with one arm. Neither can lift more force than they can hit with.
Originally posted by h1a8
This is what you said below."Your average fit woman can generate a 100 PSI punch, that doesn't mean she can curl a 100 pound dumbbell. Your correlation between lifting weight and punching strength is completely off."
This is faulty logic. I'm claiming that, "if P then Q" (A woman lifting 100lb will hit with more than 100PSI). I'm not claiming the converse, "if Q then P" is true (A woman hitting with 100PSI means that she can lift 100lb.). You are basically defeating the argument "if Q then P". This is a fallacy.
Hitting with 50PSI doesn't mean you can lift 50lbs. But lifting 50lb does prove that you can strike with MORE than 50PSI. This is because you have momentum added to the force push.
A heavyweight can't hit with the same force as a professional boxer but BOTH can hit with a force larger than what they can lift with one arm. Neither can hit with more force than they can lift.
Has Supergirl ever been shown to hit with Bi-Frost level force?
Originally posted by Silent Master
Has Supergirl ever been shown to hit with Bi-Frost level force?
If we take the key feat as her strength level then she can clearly hit with millions of tons of force or more.
Since you don't know how to quantify bi-frost level then you can't say that she can't punch with more than bi-frost level.
Originally posted by h1a8
If we take the key feat as her strength level then she can clearly hit with millions of tons of force or more.Since you don't know how to quantify bi-frost level then you can't say that she can't punch with more than bi-frost level.
I'm not asking for your opinion, I'm asking if SG has ever been shown hitting with Bi-Frost levels of force.
It's a simple yes or no question.
Originally posted by Silent Master
I'm not asking for your opinion, I'm asking if SG has ever been shown hitting with Bi-Frost levels of force.It's a simple yes or no question.
If we take the key feat as her strength level then she can clearly hit with millions of tons of force or more.
Since you don't know how to quantify bi-frost level then you can't say that she can't punch with more than bi-frost level.
Originally posted by h1a8
If we take the key feat as her strength level then she can clearly hit with millions of tons of force or more.Since you don't know how to quantify bi-frost level then you can't say that she can't punch with more than bi-frost level.
Stop dodging the question.
Has Supergirl ever been shown to hit with Bi-Frost level force?
Originally posted by h1a8
This is what you said below."Your average fit woman can generate a 100 PSI punch, that doesn't mean she can curl a 100 pound dumbbell. Your correlation between lifting weight and punching strength is completely off."
This is faulty logic. I'm claiming that, "if P then Q" (A woman lifting 100lb will hit with more than 100PSI). I'm not claiming the converse, "if Q then P" is true (A woman hitting with 100PSI means that she can lift 100lb.). You are basically defeating the argument "if Q then P". This is a fallacy.
Hitting with 50PSI doesn't mean you can lift 50lbs. But lifting 50lb does prove that you can strike with MORE than 50PSI. This is because you have momentum added to the force push.
A heavyweight can't hit with the same force as a professional boxer but BOTH can hit with a force larger than what they can lift with one arm. Neither can lift more force than they can hit with.
You're not paying attention here. I'm not saying if Q then P or if P then Q. I'm saying you can't use P to determine Q and vice versa becsuse they don't have a direct correlation. In short, you can't use lifting strength to determine striking strength. The strength used for lifting is different from the strength used to strike, why is why powerlifting strength doesn't translate to striking strength. Arm strength does not determine punching power.
Besides, all you need to do is watch how Supergirl punches and you already know that she doesn't punch with a million ton PSI.
Originally posted by FrothByte
You're not paying attention here. I'm not saying if Q then P or if P then Q. I'm saying you can't use P to determine Q and vice versa becsuse they don't have a direct correlation. In short, you can't use lifting strength to determine striking strength. The strength used for lifting is different from the strength used to strike, why is why powerlifting strength doesn't translate to striking strength. Arm strength does not determine punching power.Besides, all you need to do is watch how Supergirl punches and you already know that she doesn't punch with a million ton PSI.
I didn't claim you can use lifting strength to determine striking power. I claimed that striking force is always larger than lifting force.
For example, if you can lift 50lb with one hand then we can't determine striking force. But we can say that striking force will be greater than 50lb. This is because the force exertion will be the same but with added initial momentum.
The true definition of force is change of momentum over change in time.
To stop her punch requires both to stop the momentum of the strike and to overpower her pushing strength behind the strike (which is equal to her strength).
Originally posted by Silent Master
Stop dodging the question.Has Supergirl ever been shown to hit with Bi-Frost level force?
Since you don't know how to quantify bi-frost level then you can't say that she can't punch with more than bi-frost level.
Originally posted by The Sorrow
Iirc she nearly died from that lightning before Superman saved her. Thor stomps hard.
Originally posted by Darth ThorIt takes Thor multiple seconds to generate lightning. When she uses her speed then 1 second would be like an hour or more to her. She would easily hit Thor first and it would be over.
Yep. Pretty sure that gives Thor the win. Wouldn't be easy for her to dodge a widespread blast either.
Originally posted by h1a8
It takes Thor multiple seconds to generate lightning. When she uses her speed then 1 second would be like an hour or more to her. She would easily hit Thor first and it would be over.
No, not fighting in character. She hardly ever hits first, and consistently gets hit by people far slower than Thor.
Also Thor doesn't need multiple seconds to fire lightning:
@3:10
?v=6wGYJ14Wu54
^ You shouldn't just make things up about characters you're arguing against.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
No, not fighting in character. She hardly ever hits first, and consistently gets hit by people far slower than Thor.Also Thor doesn't need multiple seconds to fire lightning:
@3:10
?v=6wGYJ14Wu54
^ You shouldn't just make things up about characters you're arguing against.
Fixed your link 😛