Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
LOL... So, you are claiming you didn't make that ridiculous "fighting" the Hulk analogy after people pointed out that Bucky went toe to toe with Cap, BP and IM, as fighting feats? Well, if you are going to just be dishonest, then there is no point engaging you further. Whether in terms of skill or strength/durability, it's an absolutely retarded misrepresentation designed to lowball WS.Also, you did your scaling while simultaneously trying to dismiss the examples people were giving for WS, and tried to use your one-off "Batman backhand KO'd someone" (which you have still yet to post a clip for) as your constant reference for Bane. But, like I said, if you are just going to be dishonest, there is no point in wasting more time on you.
Also, the notion that someone's skill "must" be based on beating up a group of human fodder laughable. I will give you a gold medal for some of the most epic mental gymnastics I have seen on here in a long time. Have a nice day.
You twist things up a lot. Your verbiage is unclear at times. My memory isn't perfect. That's why it is best to post the exact quotes.
With that said, in the present WS fighting IM isn't a skill feat for several reasons.
1. He has no hope of winning.
2. IM could easily kill WS in a second if he wanted to.
Why is WS going toe to toe with BP impressive?
What basis do we have for his skill?
WS going toe to toe with Cap is impressive. This is because Cap has a basis for his skill. He has beat multiple humans simultaneously. Otherwise, what would be his basis for Cap's skill?
Originally posted by Silent Master
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/opinion2
a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge a person of rigid opinionshttps://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/belief
: something that is accepted, considered to be true, or held as an opinion : something believed an individual's religious or political beliefs; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group the beliefs of the Catholic Church
1
a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter.
I proven it was a fact.
The writer wanted Jimmy to be telling the truth is a fact. If he wanted Jimmy to have been lying then he would have given something in the story to show this. He didn't. Therefore, he wanted Jimmy to be telling the truth.
Originally posted by h1a8
You twist things up a lot. Your verbiage is unclear at times. My memory isn't perfect. That's why it is best to post the exact quotes.With that said, in the present WS fighting IM isn't a skill feat for several reasons.
1. He has no hope of winning.
2. IM could easily kill WS in a second if he wanted to.Why is WS going toe to toe with BP impressive?
What basis do we have for his skill?WS going toe to toe with Cap is impressive. This is because Cap has a basis for his skill. He has beat multiple humans simultaneously. Otherwise, what would be his basis for Cap's skill?
You telling other people they twist things up is pretty ironic. Also, you were the first person to bring up durability in the Bane vs WS thread. You brought up Bane no-selling haymakers and Batman's "superhuman" strength feats after people mentioned the metal arm. And no mention of using other people's logic either. You can go check the thread if you think I am making something up.
That reasoning is just silly. Batroc had no hope of beating Cap, so does that mean his fight isn't an example of skill? As an H2H feat, Bucky's fight with IM very much counts because Iron Man would need non-H2H means to be able to quickly kill him.
Seriously? You want to claim LoS training is a basis of skill for Nolanverse characters, but you ask that question about a confirmed superhuman (who was also described as highly trained, by the Russos themselves) that was mentioned as being the protector of an entire country?
Literally all his other combat feats maybe? And you missed the point. What you are talking about is not actually skill. It's combat effectiveness. For example, Luke Cage can clear 20 guys faster and with less effort than Black Widow can, using H2H, but who is actually a more skilled H2H fighter? Black Widow. Who has more combat effectiveness in that scenario? Luke Cage.
Anyway, this exchange is pointless. Because all I will get in return is more mental gymnastics from you. You can't see what is painfully visible to pretty much everyone that engages you on these boards. You'd rather accuse everyone else of bias than even consider reflecting on your own posts. So, I am literally wasting my time right now, and I have better things to do. Reply. Don't reply. I don't care.
Originally posted by h1a8
1
a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter.I proven it was a fact.
If you're going to try and play word games, you should actually know what they mean. so far the only thing you've proven is that you don't know what (Proven, fact, belief and opinion) mean.
BTW, https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/belief
Synonyms opinion, conviction, eye, feeling, judgment (or judgement), mind, notion, persuasion, sentiment, verdict, view
Originally posted by Silent Master
If you're going to try and play word games, you should actually know what they mean. so far the only thing you've proven is that you don't know what (Proven, fact, belief and opinion) mean.BTW, https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/belief
Synonyms [b]opinion
, conviction, eye, feeling, judgment (or judgement), mind, notion, persuasion, sentiment, verdict, view [/B]
His posts are pretty much the definition of mental gymnastics. Which is why I am done engaging him.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
You telling other people they twist things up is pretty ironic. Also, you were the first person to bring up durability in the Bane vs WS thread. You brought up Bane no-selling haymakers and Batman's "superhuman" strength feats after people mentioned the metal arm. And no mention of using other people's logic either. You can go check the thread if you think I am making something up.
You are moving the goalposts. We are not talking about 'examples' of skill. We are talking about proving 'who is more skilled than who'.That reasoning is just silly. Batroc had no hope of beating Cap, so does that mean his fight isn't an example of skill? As an H2H feat, Bucky's fight with IM very much counts because Iron Man would need non-H2H means to be able to quickly kill him.
That's because WS has a metal arm and he is somewhat physically enhanced. That isn't skill.
So what are we discussing then? Combat skill or combat effectiveness? If Batman can clear a gang of thugs in a matter of seconds then what does that prove for him?Seriously? You want to claim LoS training is a basis of skill for Nolanverse characters, but you ask that question about a confirmed superhuman (who was also described as highly trained, by the Russos themselves) that was mentioned as being the protector of an entire country?
Literally all his other combat feats maybe? And you missed the point. What you are talking about is not actually skill. It's combat effectiveness. For example, Luke Cage can clear 20 guys faster and with less effort than Black Widow can, using H2H, but who is actually a more skilled H2H fighter? Black Widow. Who has more combat effectiveness in that scenario? Luke Cage.
Anyway, this exchange is pointless. Because all I will get in return is more mental gymnastics from you. You can't see what is painfully visible to pretty much everyone that engages you on these boards. You'd rather accuse everyone else of bias than even consider reflecting on your own posts. So, I am literally wasting my time right now, and I have better things to do. Reply. Don't reply. I don't care.
The mental gymnastics are originating with you. You refuse to keep the debate simple and clear. You refuse to offer suggestions on what the rules should be. You just nitpick and criticize. This isn't constructive at all.
Originally posted by Silent Master
If you're going to try and play word games, you should actually know what they mean. so far the only thing you've proven is that you don't know what (Proven, fact, belief and opinion) mean.BTW, https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/belief
Synonyms [b]opinion
, conviction, eye, feeling, judgment (or judgement), mind, notion, persuasion, sentiment, verdict, view [/B]
But I proven it was a fact. You are ignoring it completely.
"The writer wanted Jimmy to be telling the truth is a fact. If he wanted Jimmy to have been lying then he would have given something in the story to show this. He didn't. Therefore, he wanted Jimmy to be telling the truth."
Originally posted by h1a8
But I proven it was a fact. You are ignoring it completely."The writer wanted Jimmy to be telling the truth is a fact. If he wanted Jimmy to have been lying then he would have given something in the story to show this. He didn't. Therefore, he wanted Jimmy to be telling the truth."
Posting your opinion isn't the same thing as providing proof.
Originally posted by h1a8
But I proven it was a fact. You are ignoring it completely."The writer wanted Jimmy to be telling the truth is a fact. If he wanted Jimmy to have been lying then he would have given something in the story to show this. He didn't. Therefore, he wanted Jimmy to be telling the truth."
Guess you never heard of the words "exaggeration" or "miscalculation" or "mistake".
Because for some reason you're convinced that Jimmy can accurately calculate the weight of a key that he has no hope of lifting, without doing any proper way of measuring that weight.
Originally posted by carthage
Her striking is patheticAt best she just knocked Superman through a few floors of a skyscraper. Thor's ice feat is vastly superior, hell even DCEU Superman can cause massive shockwaves with Zod. She can't even do any of that, lol- she punches like a human
Superman and Doomsday didn't exactly cause much collateral damage either. Broke a few windows, tackled through the side of a building.
That Superman would definately beat MOS Superman or MCU Thor though.
Originally posted by h1a8
That was in response to others (and you) using the same logic towards Cap and WS.
No, it was not. No one said anything about WS taking hits before you brought that up in that thread. You started the whole thing after people pointed out the metal arm would hurt Bane. You first started with "Bane has good defense" and then evolved into your haymaker argument. No one else had said anything about it until you started.
And I personally have no problem with scaling durability based on hits taken (just like I have no problem scaling skill) as long as it is done equally across the board, for both sides. Which is not what you did. Whenever people mention feats for Bucky, for example, you do your "power fluctuation" crap, and also did your inane Hulk analogy, but then in the very next post you go "Bane no-sold hits from a superhuman".
Originally posted by h1a8
You are moving the goalposts. We are not talking about 'examples' of skill. We are talking about proving 'who is more skilled than who'.
No, we have been talking about what are valid examples of skill to be applied in forum fights this entire time. I have never once even hinted that this was a "who is more skilled" discussion. Literally my opening post you quoted mentioned how certain skill feats get applied to one side and not to the other.
Originally posted by h1a8
That's because WS has a metal arm and he is somewhat physically enhanced. That isn't skill. So what are we discussing then? Combat skill or combat effectiveness? If Batman can clear a gang of thugs in a matter of seconds then what does that prove for him?
Are you kidding me? Iron Man has a fully powered metal suit which enhances him even more. Being able to go H2H is clearly a valid example of skill. This is what I mean. You want to scale Nolan Ra's and Bane off of feats done by Batman, but then try to make excuses to dismiss feats actually performed by the other character in question. So, thank you for proving my point.
Originally posted by h1a8
The mental gymnastics are originating with you. You refuse to keep the debate simple and clear. You refuse to offer suggestions on what the rules should be. You just nitpick and criticize. This isn't constructive at all.
I have not nitpicked. I mentioned a specific example of what I saw as double standards, in a post directed at another person who also perceived your posts as having double standards (like virtually everyone here perceives your posts as having). You don't debate according to the standards you set for other people. You want to be able to use lines of argument you dismiss when they are used against you.
But anyway, I suspect you will respond to this by trying to make me out to be the bad guy. But that's fine. I don't care, as no one here is buying what you are selling. Everyone is wise to your antics already.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Quote where you stated this in the thread and it better be before you were called on it. because at that point it would just be you making excuses for your blatant double standards.
I am honestly done with him. If this discussion has told me anything, it's that he will never acknowledge what is clearly obvious to virtually everyone else here. He will just keep playing innocent and ignorant and act like the rest of us are the bad guys. And I just can't be bothered indulging that kind of crap when there are multiple posters willing to have reasonable debates. I mean it says a lot that I have disagreed with pretty much every other poster on here at some point or another at least once (including you), and often more than once, yet I hold all these people in much higher regard than I do him.
So, he can do and say whatever he wants at this point. He might as well be farting in the wind for all I care.
Originally posted by FrothByteJimmy can do whatever the writer wants him to.
Guess you never heard of the words "exaggeration" or "miscalculation" or "mistake".Because for some reason you're convinced that Jimmy can accurately calculate the weight of a key that he has no hope of lifting, without doing any proper way of measuring that weight.
Writer>>>>>>you.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
No, it was not. No one said anything about WS taking hits before you brought that up in that thread. You started the whole thing after people pointed out the metal arm would hurt Bane. You first started with "Bane has good defense" and then evolved into your haymaker argument. No one else had said anything about it until you started.And I personally have no problem with scaling durability based on hits taken (just like I have no problem scaling skill) as long as it is done equally across the board, for both sides. Which is not what you did. Whenever people mention feats for Bucky, for example, you do your "power fluctuation" crap, and also did your inane Hulk analogy, but then in the very next post you go "Bane no-sold hits from a superhuman".
No, we have been talking about what are valid examples of skill to be applied in forum fights this entire time. I have never once even hinted that this was a "who is more skilled" discussion. Literally my opening post you quoted mentioned how certain skill feats get applied to one side and not to the other.
Are you kidding me? Iron Man has a fully powered metal suit which enhances him even more. Being able to go H2H is clearly a valid example of skill. This is what I mean. You want to scale Nolan Ra's and Bane off of feats done by Batman, but then try to make excuses to dismiss feats actually performed by the other character in question. So, thank you for proving my point.
I have not nitpicked. I mentioned a specific example of what I saw as double standards, in a post directed at another person who also perceived your posts as having double standards (like virtually everyone here perceives your posts as having). You don't debate according to the standards you set for other people. You want to be able to use lines of argument you dismiss when they are used against you.
But anyway, I suspect you will respond to this by trying to make me out to be the bad guy. But that's fine. I don't care, as no one here is buying what you are selling. Everyone is wise to your antics already.
Clearly you are mistaken. My posts were after what I said.
I can go toe to toe with IM if I had a metal arm and my durability was enhanced and I were subject to the plot devices he had.
Bucky did not do anything impressive. Him at Cap doubled teamed him. He made use of Cap's shield. In a straight h2h fight he would lose quickly.
Let's analyze the scene. Post it.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Quote where you stated this in the thread and it better be before you were called on it. because at that point it would just be you making excuses for your blatant double standards.
Vault or FrothByte (I can't remember which) was using arguments as comparing Cap tanking WS punches when WS cracked concrete. There were MANY more similar arguments used before I stated that argument.
Originally posted by h1a8
Jimmy can do whatever the writer wants him to.Writer>>>>>>you.
Where does the writer make out Jimmy to be some infallible character?
So is it also fact that Supergirl is "a lot" faster than Superman simply because Jimmy said so?
You're being ridiculous at this point.
P.S. The actual onscreen Canon is >>>>>>>>>> The "Writer" for that episode.
Not that you have any idea what that specific writer's intentions were anyway.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Where does the writer make out Jimmy to be some infallible character?So is it also fact that Supergirl is "a lot" faster than Superman simply because Jimmy said so?
You're being ridiculous at this point.
P.S. The actual onscreen Canon is >>>>>>>>>> The "Writer" for that episode.
Not that you have any idea what that specific writer's intentions were anyway.
This is all that matters.
If the writer wants SG to be faster than Superman then why is that ridiculous?
The writer>>>>>>>anything (including Canon) as they can change Canon whenever they see fit. They have FULL CREATIVE POWER. They are TOAA.
Originally posted by h1a8
Clearly you are mistaken. My posts were after what I said.I can go toe to toe with IM if I had a metal arm and my durability was enhanced and I were subject to the plot devices he had.
Bucky did not do anything impressive. Him at Cap doubled teamed him. He made use of Cap's shield. In a straight h2h fight he would lose quickly.Let's analyze the scene. Post it.
No, I am not. Again, anyone who actually reads the thread in question can see this. Here is you starting that specific argument, on page 2. Also, no mention of using "our" logic either:
Originally posted by h1a8
Yes Bucky wins but it won't be easy or fast.
Bane no sold Batman's haymakers. Batman is hella strong from his feats.
Bane is super intelligent. He's not going to willingly allow Bucky to hit him with the metal arm. Bane can definitely hurt him with a few hits.The fight choreography in Batman was terrible. He should be fired.
Originally posted by h1a8
Agreed. I'm not arguing he wins. He definitely loses here. But this spite shit is ridiculous. Bane no sold Batman's haymakers. Batman has some superhuman strength feats.
And your second argument is f****** ridiculous. Using that garbage logic, I can say that I can go toe to toe with Nolan verse characters if I had plot device on my side. And again shows your double-standards. Because things like Joker giving Batman trouble and Bucky fighting Iron Man in H2H is apparently plot-device, but anything that suits your side is the "writer's intention" and "100% true".
But good job once again proving that you are full of shit. Anyway, I'm putting you back on Ignore. You're other people's problem now.