Kenobi vs Maul: How Did It Happen?

1. The quote doesn't isn't just talking about growing wiser, its talking about them as swordsman, so to say they "weren't more capable duelists" is bs. Maul specifically being at his physical best(which I'd love to see the actual quote for) wouldn't at all change that overall maul is superior as feloni's statement refers to maul as a swordsman, not specifically maul's "experience" or hsving "learned more"
2.Maul being emotionally inferior, and less able to control his emotions makes him a worse fighter, Just as kenobi being able to control himself and outanticipate maul makes him the better fighter. The quote is talking about maul as of his emotional state as a swordsman having improved from sod. Him being a "sadder character", past his "glory days" or him being "broken" doesn't mean he hasn't progressed as a duelist as feloni has clearly indicate dthat he indeed has progressed along with kenobi as a swordsman from sod
3.You can keep saying that, it doesn't make it true.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
1. The quote doesn't isn't just talking about growing wiser, its talking about them as swordsman, so to say they "weren't more capable duelists" is bs. Maul specifically being at his physical best(which I'd love to see the actual quote for) wouldn't at all change that overall maul is superior as feloni's statement refers to maul as a swordsman, not specifically maul's "experience" or hsving "learned more"
2.Maul being emotionally inferior, and less able to control his emotions makes him a worse fighter, Just as kenobi being able to control himself and outanticipate maul makes him the better fighter. The quote is talking about maul as of his emotional state as a swordsman having improved from sod. Him being a "sadder character", past his "glory days" or him being "broken" doesn't mean he hasn't progressed as a duelist as feloni has clearly indicate dthat he indeed has progressed along with kenobi as a swordsman from sod
3.You can keep saying that, it doesn't make it true.

2. In this moment. That doesn't apply to other moments. Just as rocky got beat when he wasn't in the proper mindset to Clubber Lang. He said the reason he loses is he is broken so that's the very reason he loses. You're saying this doesn't apply but Filoni already states this is why he lost.

3. You haven't proven any of your claims and ignore logic at every turn. Find me one quote that says Kenobi or Maul from this episode are in their primes.

"growth" as "Very good swordsman" =/ "growth specifically of wisdom or experience" or "growth aside from physical or mental degradement". It means growth AS SWORDSMAN aka duelists. And as the quote is comparing why their rebels fight to their previous tcw fights wchich were "prolonged lightsaber duels", it indicates superiority to sod maul
Rebels maul is a superior duelist, and is more powerful than his sod self
SO yes this is prime maul, suggetsing otherwise is bs.

And yes maul is emotionally weaker than kenobi and yes kenobi was able to anticipate and cut down maul. Neither of those factors is circumstantial as of rebels maul who is superior to the maul who kenobi faced in tcw.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
"growth" as "Very good swordsman" =/ "growth specifically of wisdom or experience" or "growth aside from physical or mental degradement". It means growth AS SWORDSMAN aka duelists. And as the quote is comparing why their rebels fight to their previous tcw fights wchich were "prolonged lightsaber duels", it indicates superiority to sod maul
Rebels maul is a superior duelist, and is more powerful than his sod self
SO yes this is prime maul, suggetsing otherwise is bs.

And yes maul is emotionally weaker than kenobi and yes kenobi was able to anticipate and cut down maul. Neither of those factors is circumstantial as of rebels maul who is superior to the maul who kenobi faced in tcw.

He lost due to being a broken person so of course he isn't in his prime. We have the very reason he lost.

This idea is that Obi-Wan is willing to forgive this person who is so cruel and terrible because he feels pity for him. To his dying breath Maul is hoping there will be some revenge exacted upon his enemies. And in my mind, Obi-Wan expresses sadness there because that means that Maul has never grown and will never be released from his suffering. So I felt that moment had to be beyond a lightsaber fight and had to be more an expression of their characters.”

Maul hasn't grown which is the point. You saying otherwise is willful ignorance in the fact of facts.

False, as he was broken at the time of the duel aka at his worst. Kenobi was aware of who he was in the meantime so it was just idea, for Kenobi. Being isolated for decades without having a student to spar with logically means he isn't at his best. You really staged with logic, the facts, and what words mean.

Wow

Yes, maul has "never grown"...
EMOTIONALLY
which is why he will "never be released from his suffering" and which is why kenobi"expresses of sadness". He isn't talking about the fight, he's specifically talking about the moment AFTER the fight where kenobi holds maul and maul "is hoping there will be some revenge enacted upon his enemies", to "his dying breath".

Your ability to misunderstand context is indeed impressive

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Wow

Yes, maul has "never grown"...
EMOTIONALLY
which is why he will "never be released from his suffering" and which is why kenobi"expresses of sadness". He isn't talking about the fight, he's specifically talking about the moment AFTER the fight where kenobi holds maul and maul "is hoping there will be some revenge enacted upon his enemies", to "his dying breath".

Your ability to misunderstand context is indeed impressive

Maul, for his part, is pretty much hung up on that exact moment. That’s where his life went wrong. He can’t let it go.”

If you don't grasp what Filoni means why do you continue to press on. Maul is older, broken and lost, and out of practice with decades of isolation. Think, nerd.

One of the producers in the Rebels Recon mentioned Obi-Wan's Force ghost training from Qui-Gon.. I wonder how much that contributed to him becoming a better and more powerful Jedi.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Maul never got over the moment of Phantom Menace. Do I need to copy and paste that as well. He doesn't get over shit that's what makes him glorious. He doesn't let things go.

[B]Maul, for his part, is pretty much hung up on that exact moment. That’s where his life went wrong. He can’t let it go.”

If you don't grasp what Filoni means why do you continue to press on. Maul is older, broken and lost, and out of practice with decades of isolation. Think, nerd. [/B]

Originally posted by Rebel95
Although I agree Maul is probably not in his prime during Rebels, nothing Filoni says really proves that

2:15-2:20

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P-bJu__WXmY

So a frailer, broken, older and lost character is in his prime. Anyone who subscribed to this ridiculous theory needs to be lobotomized ASAP.

Originally posted by Rebel95
Although I agree Maul is probably not in his prime during Rebels, nothing Filoni says really proves that

This isn't prime maul because feloni talking specifically about maul as a character somehow=maul is broken and can't fight well combatively.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
->Witwer confirms that he's combatively at his most powerful
->Feloni confirms that maul and kenobi have improved as duelists specificially referring to when maul and kenobi are fighting
-> Maul has been growing in power for 15 years

This isn't prime maul because feloni talking specifically about maul as a character somehow=maul is broken and can't fight well combatively.

He's older, frailer, broken, and lost. Go into any gym and tell them this. I know a guy who is at his best. He's older than he used to be. He also is kind of lost and broken. He's frailer too but let me tell you he's never been more at the top of his game.

Maul's wisdom and experiences grew not his edge as a light saber duelist. You're a moron.

He can fight well just not at the top of his game because he's older, broken, lost, and frailer than he used to be. You don't make any sense whatsoever. Logic and you have never met.

I feel that if Maul kept his mentality from TPM he would have been stronger overall.

I agree with quanchi though. Just because he's broken and frail doesn't mean he can't be at his best. Qui-Gon Jinn was at his best at 60 when he died. Sure he tired way quicker, but his experience and pure skill made up for that. Same with Dooku. Sure as a Jedi Master he was much younger, but there's no doubt that his AoTC version, although considerably older and more likely to fatigue quicker, was far more skilled and had more feats to his name that made up for that. There's heaps of examples of this.

Maul in TPM is a solid 8, and although he never reaches 9, he definitely goes from low-mid 8 imo to a good solid high 8. Maybe not Windu level or Dooku level but very very close.

1. Per the same voice actor he's also more powerful than he's ever been before combatively.
A
2. nd off course like usual you're missing ht epoint. The quoe is not specifically referring to a single aspect of maul's dueling ability so it refers to maul's ability as a swordsman overall which would consider any potential physical degradement(which can be overcome by force augmentation). Maul is better than he was as a duelist.

Anyone who argues otherwise is simply wrong.

Originally posted by samappo
I feel that if Maul kept his mentality from TPM he would have been stronger overall.

I agree with quanchi though. Just because he's broken and frail doesn't mean he can't be at his best. Qui-Gon Jinn was at his best at 60 when he died. Sure he tired way quicker, but his experience and pure skill made up for that. Same with Dooku. Sure as a Jedi Master he was much younger, but there's no doubt that his AoTC version, although considerably older and more likely to fatigue quicker, was far more skilled and had more feats to his name that made up for that. There's heaps of examples of this.

Maul in TPM is a solid 8, and although he never reaches 9, he definitely goes from low-mid 8 imo to a good solid high 8. Maybe not Windu level or Dooku level but very very close.

Was Qui broken ?? Was Dooku broken ?? You ignore both points and don't know if these guys were better younger. We base their primes based off what we see and since we don't see Qui's youthful self or Dooku's that doesn't mean their older versions are superior. It just means what we see and know of them is they are pretty formidable at their age. Maul was formidable at his age, definitely. He just wasn't at his best in comparison to what we have seen from him. This isn't rocket science and the sheer idiocy being displayed here is atrocious.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
1. Per the same voice actor he's also more powerful than he's ever been before combatively.
A
2. nd off course like usual you're missing ht epoint. The quoe is not specifically referring to a single aspect of maul's dueling ability so it refers to maul's ability as a swordsman overall which would consider any potential physical degradement(which can be overcome by force augmentation). Maul is better than he was as a duelist.

Anyone who argues otherwise is simply wrong.

More powerful doesn't mean a better duelist. You can pretend the words specifically mean that but they actually don't. He's frailer, older, broken, and lost. No one in their right mind would say this is the best we've ever seen from Maul.

You have to be a kid to be this willfully ignorant.

Originally posted by samappo
I feel that if Maul kept his mentality from TPM he would have been stronger overall.

I agree with quanchi though. Just because he's broken and frail doesn't mean he can't be at his best. Qui-Gon Jinn was at his best at 60 when he died. Sure he tired way quicker, but his experience and pure skill made up for that. Same with Dooku. Sure as a Jedi Master he was much younger, but there's no doubt that his AoTC version, although considerably older and more likely to fatigue quicker, was far more skilled and had more feats to his name that made up for that. There's heaps of examples of this.

Maul in TPM is a solid 8, and although he never reaches 9, he definitely goes from low-mid 8 imo to a good solid high 8. Maybe not Windu level or Dooku level but very very close.

And maul's obsession with kenobi has never been a source of combative weakness(the opposite actually), but a character weakness. Kenobi becoming fully enlightened is why he's winning here, it would also be why he would in vs sod maul or any post tpm version of maul(and tpm maul is confiremed to be weaker than sod maul)

Rebels maul is stronger overall, oeople who dispute this are simply wrong.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
quanchi is arguing that maul is not in his prime and that him being physically weaker means he is out of prime, so no, you don't agree with quanchi.

And maul's obsession with kenobi has never been a source of combative weakness(the opposite actually), but a character weakness.

Rebels maul is stronger overall, oeople who dispute this are simply wrong.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you're saying his physicality and mental psyche being sub par means you can be at your best.

Yes, I am.

It seems like you believe either TCW or TPM Maul is his prime?

Originally posted by samappo
Yes, I am.

It seems like you believe either TCW or TPM Maul is his prime?

Maul sucks, thats how it happened.

/thread?