Originally posted by NephthysNO, Maul is one of the greatest Sith to ever grace the Star Wars mythos. He is an impact player and loved beyond the clone wars and decades after he was alone. He's a truly resourceful, cunning, and very interesting character. And what's best of all when ever anyone has something negative to say about him I'll be there to make their life hell.
Maul sucks, thats how it happened./thread?
Originally posted by quanchi112
NO, Maul is one of the greatest Sith to ever grace the Star Wars mythos. He is an impact player and loved beyond the clone wars and decades after he was alone. He's a truly resourceful, cunning, and very interesting character. And what's best of all when ever anyone has something negative to say about him I'll be there to make their life hell.
He was resourceful and cunning before the end of TPM. After that he started trading away his tactical sensibilities for pure rage and frontal assaults.
And you know what, that's what makes him a great character. He never let go of what happened, and that makes him unique, and that's where I will agree with you.
Originally posted by samappo
He was resourceful and cunning before the end of TPM. After that he started trading away his tactical sensibilities for pure rage and frontal assaults.And you know what, that's what makes him a great character. He never let go of what happened, and that makes him unique, and that's where I will agree with you.
Originally posted by samappo
Exactly.
Originally posted by samappoSith and the Jedi.
Who are they?And maybe in mindset, but not in power and dueling abilities.
To be a formidable opponent at your best you need physicality, mentality, and strength. You can't leave two of these three at sub par levels and expect to be at your best. Power is a vague term that can mean a lot of things. You are ignoring logic and common sense as well.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Why is why saying maul not letting go in rebels makes him weaker combatively no sense, especiallt when he's facing kenobi who his "singular hatred off" empowers. And no, maul didn't just blindly rush in vs kenobi, he tried to outwit him and patiently joines in in trying to read each other's moves, but kenobi, having become the quintessential jedi has progressed to a level where maul "can't beat that"/
I actually don't understand what you're trying to say?
Originally posted by samappoI know he's always been great at these traits.
He was resourceful and cunning before the end of TPM. After that he started trading away his tactical sensibilities for pure rage and frontal assaults.And you know what, that's what makes him a great character. He never let go of what happened, and that makes him unique, and that's where I will agree with you.
Point is when your body gets older, weaker, you don't practice as much, you are isolated for years, and you're broken and lost on top of it you are nowhere near your best. It makes no sense.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Sith and the Jedi.To be a formidable opponent at your best you need physicality, mentality, and strength. You can't leave two of these three at sub par levels and expect to be at your best. Power is a vague term that can mean a lot of things. You are ignoring logic and common sense as well.
And the context of the quotes both are clearly combative unlike any of the quote you've provided
Originally posted by quanchi112
Sith and the Jedi.To be a formidable opponent at your best you need physicality, mentality, and strength. You can't leave two of these three at sub par levels and expect to be at your best. Power is a vague term that can mean a lot of things. You are ignoring logic and common sense as well.
Then barely anyone is at their best. I think you're talking about potential best. The best you could ever ever be in ideal situations. There's barely anyone who can be at their best physically, mentally and strength-wise all at the same time, at least when we talk about Star Wars. Apart from those three there's also experience which increases with age. So you can never have all four at their best.
Originally posted by RockydonovangWhen did I say he didn't embody the philosophies of a Sith.
SOD maul is a sith.And the context of the quotes both are clearly combative unlike any of the quote you've provided
No, it doesn't. Your interpretation isn't a fact. I've provided quotes he's older, frailer, broken, and lost. On top of that he's out of practice and been isolated. Common sense should be screaming saying he isn't at his best. Only a moron would persist in this brainless argument you've put together.
Originally posted by samappo
I actually don't understand what you're trying to say?
And importantly we have confirmation that maul as of rebels is more powerful and more skilled as a duelist.
This is unquestionably maul at his combative best
Originally posted by samappoNo, I am saying he's been mentally stronger, physically better, and practiced his skills more aka that's his prime. I am talking about what we have seen and this is far from his best. At someone's prime means when they are at their personal best. Rebels was not his best.
Then barely anyone is at their best. I think you're talking about potential best. The best you could ever ever be in ideal situations. There's barely anyone who can be at their best physically, mentally and strength-wise all at the same time, at least when we talk about Star Wars. Apart from those three there's also experience which increases with age. So you can never have all four at their best.
Originally posted by RockydonovangYou can continue to repeat yourself but common sense and multiple quotes suggest otherwise.
Maul not emotionally letting go of kenobi wouldn't make him combatively weaker than he was in sod or tpm. His emotional state isn't a source of combative weakness as people on this forum keep trying to argue with quotes that don't say jack about maul weakining combatively.And importantly we have confirmation that maul as of rebels is more powerful and more skilled as a duelist.
This is unquestionably maul at his combative best
No, I am saying he's been mentally stronger, physically better, and practiced his skills more aka that's his prime. I am talking about what we have seen and this is far from his best. At someone's prime means when they are at their personal best. Rebels was not his best.
Yet he was also more experienced and had a wider set of skills to his name. He is just displaying throughout his entire career how arrogant he is and he loses most fights because of underestimating his opponent more than anything else.
Jinn was stronger and physically better during his 'physical prime', but his TPM self was mentally stronger and also had a lot more experience.
Now sure, old master Maul wasn't as mentally strong as previous iterations, but his experience was years and years ahead, not to mention his refined power in the force and more diverse fighting style compared to TPM, which more than makes up for his defined mental, physical and strength weaknesses due to old age.
Old master Maul is the same age roughly as Jinn was in TPM. Yet Jinn, being like 30-40 years older still matched the young 'PRIME' Maul as you believe him to be in lightsaber combat. Jinn wasn't physically or srength-wise in his prime, but he had decades of additional experience and increased connection in the force to make up for it.
I've got no doubt that old master Maul could defeat Jinn at that point.
Originally posted by samappoMore experienced but stuck in the past with less practice, broken, and physically lesser. He lost because he was broken the guy already explained that. So that was the reason he lost aka not his prime or best.
Yet he was also more experienced and had a wider set of skills to his name. He is just displaying throughout his entire career how arrogant he is and he loses most fights because of underestimating his opponent more than anything else.Jinn was stronger and physically better during his 'physical prime', but his TPM self was mentally stronger and also had a lot more experience.
Now sure, old master Maul wasn't as mentally strong as previous iterations, but his experience was years and years ahead, not to mention his refined power in the force and more diverse fighting style compared to TPM, which more than makes up for his defined mental, physical and strength weaknesses due to old age.
Old master Maul is the same age roughly as Jinn was in TPM. Yet Jinn, being like 30-40 years older still matched the young 'PRIME' Maul as you believe him to be in lightsaber combat. Jinn wasn't physically or srength-wise in his prime, but he had decades of additional experience and increased connection in the force to make up for it.
I've got no doubt that old master Maul could defeat Jinn at that point.
You don't know since you never saw him. That's my point. With Kenobi, Anakin, and Maul we can gauge their primes across decades. We can't with the others because we only saw them in one era.
He tried the same maneuver he successfully killed Qui with so everything you say falls apart when we see him in action.
Maul killed him. Maul also took he and his padawan on simultaneously. Maul at his best was superior to Qui at this point.
Your perception isn't a legit fact that's just you speculating. A guy broken, less practiced, isolated, lost, frailer, and older than he used to be isn't at his best. Why isn't common sense more common.
More experienced but stuck in the past with less practice, broken, and physically lesser. He lost because he was broken the guy already explained that. So that was the reason he lost aka not his prime or best.
And his TPM or TCW iteration would fare better in that fight necessarily ?
You don't know since you never saw him. That's my point. With Kenobi, Anakin, and Maul we can gauge their primes across decades. We can't with the others because we only saw them in one era.
We do know? It's mentioned many times in TPM that Jinn was not as strong and fit as he used to be. It specifically states that he compensated for his old age with more experience. This is in the novel.
He tried the same maneuver he successfully killed Qui with so everything you say falls apart when we see him in action.
Because he was going up against the person he was looking for for so long to exact revenge upon. He obviously wasn't going to be mentally at his best fighting Kenobi. Kenobi lulled him in with the Ataru stance, and Maul took that as a weakness. He didn't think it through because he mentally was just hellbent on revenge. This doesn't make him worse as a duelist, it's just him yet again underestimating what his opponent is thinking/planning/can do.
Maul killed him. Maul also took he and his padawan on simultaneously. Maul at his best was superior to Qui at this point.
"Beyond, the Sith Lord worked at binding up his wounds, a series of burns and slashes marked by charred tears in his dark clothing. He was backed to the edge of the chamber beyond, keeping a close watch on Qui-Gon..."
Maul got injured during the fight, multiple times. Which means that Jinn and or Jinn + Kenobi penetrated his defenses on multiple occasions. Not exactly a clear sign of an easy fight, especially if the majority of these wounds happened when Jinn and Maul were fighting alone.
Also note that Maul was "keeping a close watch on Qui-Gon...".
"Qui-Gon was on his feet as well, his own weapon flashing. He catapulted through the opening that led into the melting pit and closed with the Sith Lord, forcing him back, out of the passageway completely."
Note the use of the word force. Maul before this was definitely leading Jinn on towards the melting pit, but this passage indicates that Maul was getting beaten back forcefully as well, at least in this point in time.
"He had found a fresh reserve of strength during his meditation, and now he was attacking with a ferocity that seemed to have the Sith Lord stymied. With quick, hard strokes of his lightsaber, he bored into his adversary, deliberately engaging in close-quarters combat, refusing to let the other bring his double-bladed weapon to bear. He drove Darth Maul backward about the rim of the overhang, keeping the Sith Lord constantly on the defensive, pressing on him steadily. Qui-Gon Jinn might no longer be young, but he was still powerful. Darth Maul's ragged face took on a frenzied look, and the glitter of his strange eyes brightened with uncertainty.
Then Darth Maul back-flipped across the melting pit, giving himself some space in which to recover, gaining just enough time to assume a new battle stance. Qui-Gon was on him in an instant, covering the distance separating them in a rush, hammering into the Sith Lord anew.
These passages show that Jinn matched Maul. Sure Maul won, Jinn as old and tired quickly. But to make Maul 'stymied' (to prevent or hinder the progress of) and 'uncertain' about how the fight was going to play out is quite impressive. Even when Maul back-flipped across the pit, he could barely assume a battle stance before Jinn was already engaging him again.
So if Maul is superior to Jinn, it's quite barely.
Your perception isn't a legit fact that's just you speculating. A guy broken, less practiced, isolated, lost, frailer, and older than he used to be isn't at his best. Why isn't common sense more common.
I know it's speculation. But again you're not really specifying the exact version of Maul where he's at his best.