Originally posted by TethAdamTheRockHis fists?
[b] lol Hulk won because of a plot device [/B]
He was holding back heavily yet still had what it took to make Strange go night night. "The little people" angle makes little impact when hulk was considering them a lot more than Strange was.
Is WWH still as hard to understand as string theory on kmc? It's been almost 10 years
Originally posted by psycho gundamStrange wasnt fighting
His fists?He was holding back heavily yet still had what it took to make Strange go night night. "The little people" angle makes little impact when hulk was considering them a lot more than Strange was.
Is WWH still as hard to understand as string theory on kmc? It's been almost 10 years
I know that the board rules--and particularly their application--can be complex, convoluted, and even contradictory. I don't really want to get into that other than to say that I don't think we have any business trying to discern whether a character 'fought at their best' based on what abilities they use or don't use. Comics simply have never worked that way--they are far, far from realistic.
Rather, I try to discern what the writer is telling us. If the writer is telling us that Flash fought as hard as he could, then even if he didn't go FTL or use a chain of infinite mass punches, he's still considered to have done his best.
As for the topic at hand, I want to say that even though OWAW is the most explicit account of Superman dropping the gloves and accessing a kind of dynamic power, it still only represents the take of a few writers and editors at a given time in Superman's history. We can't use it as the only benchmark for 'All Out Superman'. Other writers may not have had Superman seem to go quite as all out, but you can infer--based on what their version of Superman did and did not do when becoming highly motivated--that they probably don't envision Superman as being quite as potentially powerful as the OWAW team did.
That said, if we wish to specify that the Superman in this fight is the unleashed Superman from OWAW, then we are dealing with a very extreme portrayal. And that Superman--taken at his Probe-busting peak--seems at least as capable as WWH was. I think he can clear this list at least as easily as WWH did. Granted, the fight against Zomling Strange may have been Strange's to win, and it's possible that just as Strange might have beaten Hulk had special circumstances not arisen, so to might he have beaten OWAW SUperman.
Originally posted by Pillow Biter
I know that the board rules--and particularly their application--can be complex, convoluted, and even contradictory. I don't really want to get into that other than to say that I don't think we have any business trying to discern whether a character 'fought at their best' based on what abilities they use or don't use. Comics simply have never worked that way--they are far, far from realistic.
Rather, I try to discern what the writer is telling us. If the writer is telling us that Flash fought as hard as he could, then even if he didn't go FTL or use a chain of infinite mass punches, he's still considered to have done his best.
As for the topic at hand, I want to say that even though OWAW is the most explicit account of Superman dropping the gloves and accessing a kind of dynamic power, it still only represents the take of a few writers and editors at a given time in Superman's history. We can't use it as the only benchmark for 'All Out Superman'. Other writers may not have had Superman seem to go quite as all out, but you can infer--based on what their version of Superman did and did not do when becoming highly motivated--that they probably don't envision Superman as being quite as potentially powerful as the OWAW team did.
That said, if we wish to specify that the Superman in this fight is the unleashed Superman from OWAW, then we are dealing with a very extreme portrayal. And that Superman--taken at his Probe-busting peak--seems at least as capable as WWH was. I think he can clear this list at least as easily as WWH did. Granted, the fight against Zomling Strange may have been Strange's to win, and it's possible that just as Strange might have beaten Hulk had special circumstances not arisen, so to might he have beaten OWAW SUperman.
Good post. Can you see WWH damaging/breaking through probes?
Like Superman in OWAW, WWH had at least a kind of upward progression in terms of the power levels he attained, culminating with Hulk matching Sentry in a raw-power off--perhaps the weakest Sentry portrayal, but clearly indicative of a significant power boost from anything we had seen before.
Hulk may have been able to lay waste to a few Probes if he could have ascended to the levels he showed against the Sentry at the end of WWH. Whether he could have inflicted the kind of carnage Superman and Doomsday did is hard to say. It's possible--we are, after all, dealing with two heroes having highly dynamic power. Every conjecture should be seen through this lens, and taken with a grain or two of salt; writers would be free to write either Superman or Hulk, at these levels, in virtually any way they want.
But for context, Superman was, apperently, one-shotting Probes with heat vision--Probes that had previously been beyond his toughest blows and and had laid waste to the JLA.
Oh, and I doubt speed would play a significant part. The writers will often let someone like Superman show off their speed to beat an opponent they could have on power alone; but it's rare where they let speed be a decisive factor in a battle between otherwise evenly matched top tiers.
Just recently, DC thumbed their noses at those who want realism from speed. They had the new Superman punch Doomsday like 4,000 plus times in a row, and it did...nothing. Or very little, at the most.
I think something resembling that would be Onslaught. Every hero and villain on Earth, including some of the smartest beings on the planet gathered together to stop Onslaught but they were nothing but flies to him. Hulk then jumps in and not only match a being that was carrying an abstract in him but punched him into small pieces. Or his fight against Rulk who was ripping through everyone with ease. All characters have this, I think Superman is brought up more because he has more fans that tend to highlight his highs.
Here's where we part company. Many heroes have this kind of overdrive from time to time. But I think there is a difference between most heroes and, certainly Hulk, and also Superman, on this score. It's not really just about fans or appearances. Some kind of dynamic power mechanism has been an established, if not primary, feature of the Superman mythos for a long time. even without the various explanations, the variability of Superman's performances has long been greater than that of other top tiers.
Blood and Thunder is not Thor's OWAW, by any means. Thor doesn't regularly outpower and outperform multiple elite top tiers at once on a regular basis. I'm not saying we tale Superman's highs as his typical level. I don't know exactly what I'm saying--Supes is hard to rate. All I'm saying is that there is clearly something special about him when it comes to his ability to take it up a notch or two.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
His fists?He was holding back heavily yet still had what it took to make Strange go night night. "The little people" angle makes little impact when hulk was considering them a lot more than Strange was.
Is WWH still as hard to understand as string theory on kmc? It's been almost 10 years
We didn't really see any durability stuff from zomstrange.
All we got was that Huk was getting destroyed, Strange stopped and then Huk took him out.
He took a hell of a beating without getting splattered by punches that can in a single hit: take out Thing/Ares/she-hulk; make Darwin teleport away when his powers are threat adaptation; almost give Strong guy a heart attack even though his power is to absorb kinetic energy to make him stronger (post Forge pacemaker), etc
Those are his durability feats