Orion (grounded) vs Wolverine/Sabertooth/Spiderman

Started by Ize1924 pages

Originally posted by abhilegend
How fast? Wolverine level fast?

Is that so? I don't think Wolverine has shown that he is faster than say Captain America in any of his fights. Or Daredevil. Or Shang Chi. Or Elektra. Or Iron Fist.

Can you show me Wolverine actually being stated to be faster than any named A level street MA? Not dodging and stuff. Actually being considered faster by narration or the character which is not contradicted.

They both hear the gunshot and screen at the same time, they both take off immediately, Wolverine leaves DD in the dust. Cap has a feat of this as well, with DD saying it's like he's standing still next to Cap, but I can't find the scan right now.

So Batman is in the same range as Wolverine in speed and he is human. So how come Wolverine is metahuman in speed.

Because Batman's feats aren't really human level.

Where is that stated or shown?

On the page, he leaps at the Courier. He had to move a far smaller distance to be above where Courier targeted, than the lightning did to reach him. Same concept as dodging to the side of an oncoming train.

Where is it shown that Logan moves faster than sound? Because he jumped? Does this makes Batman faster than light?

HV is actually stated to be concentrated sunlight in that very same issue. Batman sees it coming and then jumps out of the way.

No, although it is lightspeed reaction, but like above, he didn't have to move as far as the hv to avoid it. What makes Wolverine's feat faster than sound, is how close he came to traveling the same distance in the same time.

Who wrote that Batman feat?

I want a name, so I can email/tweet him on troll well done. There's no way that sequence is an accident. 🙂

Originally posted by Ize19

They both hear the gunshot and screen at the same time, they both take off immediately, Wolverine leaves DD in the dust. Cap has a feat of this as well, with DD saying it's like he's standing still next to Cap, but I can't find the scan right now.

Except that's not conclusive if Matt heard the gunshot at the same time and started running at the very same time as Logan.

Also that's not a confirmation from either narrative or the character that Logan is faster than Matt. Cap can run faster than Matt. So can Rhino.

Doesn't means Rhino is faster than Daredevil. I asked for a scene where Wolverine is unambiguously stated to be faster than a street level character.

I'm still waiting.

Because Batman's feats aren't really human level.

You didn't inform if Batman is as fast as Wolverine.

He is human as stated and nowhere near Mach 1 in speed.

On the page, he leaps at the Courier. He had to move a far smaller distance to be above where Courier targeted, than the lightning did to reach him. Same concept as dodging to the side of an oncoming train.

So as I said, you inserted your own view on the page.

He leaps at Courier but as it is 2D medium it's inconclusive if lightning is already struck or not.

It's not above Mach 1 speed. That's your view and you HAVE to use calculations to prove that.

It's not what was written in the comic. Show me something written in the comic and shown. Not your calculation and view thrown at a page.

No, although it is lightspeed reaction, but like above, he didn't have to move as far as the hv to avoid it. What makes Wolverine's feat faster than sound, is how close he came to traveling the same distance in the same time.

No, it's far superior than what Logan does. We are informed that HV moves at speed of light. It's not mentioned that Courier's lightning moves at any certain speed.

You HAVE to assume it moves at real life lightning speed. Which as often in comics, writers don't take into account.

Originally posted by carver9
What about the Batman scan above?

Nah, just see Batman dodging like he always does. Nothing indicating "super sonic" there to me.

Originally posted by Faceless808
Nah, just see Batman dodging like he always does. Nothing indicating "super sonic" there to me.

Not going to find many (Probably any) scenes of a bullet zipping right at Batman before he steps aside. Mostly just gunmen firing in one panel, and Batman dancing around in a seperate panel, or just Bats dodging in a scene without showing the gunmen firing at all.

The distinctions pretty important, because you can't argue Batman was simply keeping ahead of someone's ability to track. The beams are heading right at him, directly. Speed of light, speed of sound, doesn't matter because it should be impossible for any human not named Val Arnorr.

And like I said, this probably isn't a mistake.. The writer's trolling CBR, I'd imagine, because the "bullet clearly heading at character" standard is one of their bedrock principles for establishing bullet timing.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Except that's not conclusive if Matt heard the gunshot at the same time and started running at the very same time as Logan.

Also that's not a confirmation from either narrative or the character that Logan is faster than Matt. Cap can run faster than Matt. So can Rhino.

Doesn't means Rhino is faster than Daredevil. I asked for a scene where Wolverine is unambiguously stated to be faster than a street level character.

I'm still waiting.

😆 You're right, what was I thinking, of course Daredevil heard the shot after Wolverine, everyone knows his hearing can't compare! You're willing to stretch this far, to keep from acknowledging how fast Wolverine was portrayed?

They both had a vested interest in arriving first, as Wolverine wanted to kill the murderer, and Daredevil wanted to bring him in alive. They were standing in the same spot when the gunshot and scream rang out, and if Wolverine reacted faster, that's just more evidence in his favor.

No, it's confirmation from the artist, later the writer has DD respond in amazement as he watches Wolverine dodge bullets. He was clearly depicted as being the faster character, and Daredevil's one of the fastest streets out there.

You didn't inform if Batman is as fast as Wolverine.

He is human as stated and nowhere near Mach 1 in speed.

Right, because I'm not getting into Batman. He's separate from other streets, as none of them are rivals with Superman. He's just a distraction, honestly, although I know for you Supes fans, every Brick versus "street" fight is actually Batman vs Superman.

So as I said, you inserted your own view on the page.

He leaps at Courier but as it is 2D medium it's inconclusive if lightning is already struck or not.

It's not above Mach 1 speed. That's your view and you HAVE to use calculations to prove that.

It's not what was written in the comic. Show me something written in the comic and shown. Not your calculation and view thrown at a page.

I'm sorry, but you thought it was inconclusive if Daredevil heard the gunshot at the same time as Wolverine, so why should I buy your interpretation here? There are plenty of ways for comics to show sequence of events, it's kind of the point of the medium.

Not any more than we calc any feat shown ever, it's pretty straightforward. They standoff, they chat, they make their move, and we're shown the lightning striking the ground, and where Wolverine is at that moment.

It was, and he was shown moving with full on speed lines, much like the scan of Orion and Mr Miracle, a page later. But it's just "my view." Lol.

No, it's far superior than what Logan does. We are informed that HV moves at speed of light. It's not mentioned that Courier's lightning moves at any certain speed.

You HAVE to assume it moves at real life lightning speed. Which as often in comics, writers don't take into account.

Right, of course. Nope, clearly the writer and artist had no idea how fast lightning moves, they probably thought it was slower than bullets 😘 Give me a break, Batman's feat is great, but he didn't have to move nearly as fast as Wolverine did, though he definitely reacted faster, at least than that Wolverine scan.

Look, it's not my fault you set the bar low, and want desperately to raise it now. Sometimes, you just have to take the L. I've done it, with the Orion Darkseid fight, trust me, it feels good to know you're arguing in good faith, instead of being stubborn for the sake of saving face. Ironically enough, it actually makes you more credible, not less, regardless of how you feel right now.

Abhi is asking Ize to post statements that would be next to impossible to find and it doesn't prove anything tbh. It's like asking ABHI to post a scan stating Superman reacting speed is greater than Wonder Woman. Hell, I can post a scan saying Wonder Woman is faster than Clark and I know for a fact he will not accept it.

Originally posted by carver9
Hell, I can post a scan saying Wonder Woman is faster than Clark and I know for a fact he will not accept it.

This one never gets old, yes.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
This one never gets old, yes.

👆

Accept it ABHI. It's a statement.

Yet when Batman is shown to stand up to a beating from WW....Carver says to ignore it.

When Superman is revealed to have been weakened from being split in half....ignore it.

When Vandal Savage's says he's the most powerful....ignore it.

When Absorbing Man fights Apocalypse, Carver ignores it, and says it was Kluh.

Good times.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
When Absorbing Man fights Apocalypse, Carver ignores it, and says it was Kluh.

That was awesome, yes haermm

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
That was awesome, yes haermm

You had to quote him, huh?

Oh, I only quoted a part. The complete post has stuff like asking for your telephone number and if you're available this evening.

You have plenty of stalkers on this forum, carv.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Oh, I only quoted a part. The complete post has stuff like asking for your telephone number and if you're available this evening.

You have plenty of stalkers on this forum, carv.

😂 😂 😂

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Oh, I only quoted a part. The complete post has stuff like asking for your telephone number and if you're available this evening.

You have plenty of stalkers on this forum, carv.

👆

Day 421. Still no reply..

Gotta love how he ignores the statement though, and glosses straight over it.

Please don't quote him Stilt. PLEASE

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Oh, I only quoted a part. The complete post has stuff like asking for your telephone number and if you're available this evening.

You have plenty of stalkers on this forum, carv.

Everyone loves the airheads. 👆

Originally posted by carver9
👆

Accept it Carver. It's a statement.

Unless you want to ignore it?

Originally posted by Ize19
😆 You're right, what was I thinking, of course [B] Daredevil heard the shot after Wolverine, everyone knows his hearing can't compare! You're willing to stretch this far, to keep from acknowledging how fast Wolverine was portrayed?

We know for a fact that Wolverine has a better sense of hearing and smell at that time. Daredevil flat out said that in Infinity War when Logan detected Iron Man doppelganger and Matt couldn't.

But tell me again how Wolverine listening the gunshot first isn't hearing him the gunshot first.

And I asked for where Wolverine outspeeded Daredevil in a fight.

Still waiting on that.

They both had a vested interest in arriving first, as Wolverine wanted to kill the murderer, and Daredevil wanted to bring him in alive. They were standing in the same spot when the gunshot and scream rang out, and if Wolverine reacted faster, that's just more evidence in his favor.

Or that his senses are more acute than Daredevil.

But no it was all speed which Wolverine somehow always forgets when fighting Daredevil.

No, it's confirmation from the artist, later the writer has DD respond in amazement as he watches Wolverine dodge bullets. He was clearly depicted as being the faster character, and Daredevil's one of the fastest streets out there.

Daredevil being amazed at someone dodging bullets is the same as Wolverine being faster?

Matt has better bullet dodging feats than pretty much everyone including Wolverine.

Don't be facetious.

Right, because I'm not getting into Batman. He's separate from other streets, as none of them are rivals with Superman. He's just a distraction, honestly, although I know for you Supes fans, every Brick versus "street" fight is actually Batman vs Superman.

Right, because Wolverine fans don't bring Logan and Hulk being rivals, do they?

And for you Wolverine fans, until Wolverine can beat everyone in melee there is no rest.

I had a good chuckle at Wolverine beating Superman in melee though.

I'm sorry, but you thought it was inconclusive if Daredevil heard the gunshot at the same time as Wolverine, so why should I buy your interpretation here? There are plenty of ways for comics to show sequence of events, it's kind of the point of the medium.

Because I'm not the one who is desperate enough to bring such an inconclusive scene to prove himself.

You don't want to buy my interpretation? I don't give a shit.

I'm right and you're wrong. That's the reality here.

Not any more than we calc any feat shown ever, it's pretty straightforward. They standoff, they chat, they make their move, and we're shown the lightning striking the ground, and where Wolverine is at that moment.

Absolutely not. You have to draw lines and triangles and measure Wolverine's position to draw a conclusion that he was moving faster than sound.

Guess what? Nobody cares about these kind of calculations least if me.

Move on, try to bring some more dodging feats and manipulate them into hypersonic speed feats for Wolverine.

It was, and he was shown moving with full on speed lines, much like the scan of Orion and Mr Miracle, a page later. But it's just "my view." Lol.

Yes, he is absolutely moving just as fast as Orion. Because speed lines are a match.

/sarcasm.

Right, of course. Nope, clearly the writer and artist had no idea how fast lightning moves, they probably thought it was slower than bullets 😘 Give me a break, Batman's feat is great, but he didn't have to move nearly as fast as Wolverine did, though he definitely reacted faster, at least than that Wolverine scan.

Of course, the writers and the artists are all physics professors and somehow Wolverine dodging lightning is faster than Batman dodging light. Prove that the writer had the speed of lightning measured up before writing the scene and somehow forgot that you create a sonic boom while moving faster than sound.

Even though light moves several times faster than lightning. It's a Wolverine feat so it must be better than everyone.


Look, it's not my fault you set the bar low, and want desperately to raise it now. Sometimes, you just have to take the L.

😂

Always trust a Wolverine fanboy to be arrogant enough to think he is winning while losing.

I've done it, with the Orion Darkseid fight, trust me, it feels good to know you're arguing in good faith, instead of being stubborn for the sake of saving face. Ironically enough, it actually makes you more credible, not less, regardless of how you feel right now. [/B]

Get this, you failed to prove Wolverine shown faster than ANY street level character in a fight, you failed to show a single scene of Wolverine moving faster than speed of sound and you think you won here?

crylaugh

Consider this a parting gift.

That's how you prove someone able to move hypersonic.

Plain as day, Abhi. Plain as day,