Orion (grounded) vs Wolverine/Sabertooth/Spiderman

Originally posted by leonidas
I’m legit curious about what’s so objectionable here. I mean they could beat hulk. At least the classic version. So is it Orion’s speed that makes it so outrageous? His skill? Would a grounded Orion with no Astro force beat savage hulk? Not IMO. I don’t really care enough to debate either side but I do find it interesting. What exactly makes this Orion different from any other one dimensional brick? Has to be more than his very limited combat speed showings, no?

Well, for a start, he is the size of a solar system, able to fit planets in his hand.

But of course, that will be removed.

So to be on Savage Hulk (or other one dimensional brick), we need to remove Orion's:

1. Flight
2. Astro Force and everything he achieves with it
3. His Motherbox (and everything he achieves with it)
4. One of the major properties that being a New God gives you (which the MBox adjusts for).

I mean....how much further down the list of his powers and attributes do we have to remove?

Originally posted by carver9
If Orion have the healing factor Hulk displays in comics that keeps him in fights like this, they yeah, but to my knowledge, he doesn't have that type of healing factor to compensate for the damage he will receive here.

But of course, you removed it. This is like a thread where Surfer doesn't have the Power Cosmic, lol.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well, for a start, he is the size of a solar system, able to fit planets in his hand.

But of course, that will be removed.

So to be on Savage Hulk (or other one dimensional brick), we need to remove Orion's:

1. Flight
2. Astro Force and everything he achieves with it
3. His Motherbox (and everything he achieves with it)
4. One of the major properties that being a New God gives you (which the MBox adjusts for).

I mean....how much further down the list of his powers and attributes do we have to remove?

But of course, you removed it. This is like a thread where Surfer doesn't have the Power Cosmic, lol.

Yeah he’s never at full size so how is that even a nerf....? New gods in threads are never full size....

And as for nerfing in general? Who cares. No point arguing that. Most hulk threads nerf him too. A ton of superman threads nerf him. It happens often enough. So No blasting and he’s grounded with no mother box. There are tons of examples of the mb not really doing much to help him anyway. And People would pull from mother box feats that have nothing to do with Orion if it were allowed.

So under the conditions given what makes him stand out from any other brick? I’m still not entirely sure. /shrug

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
If Wolverine can slice and dice Nefaria.. Spidey can beat Firelord, and Sabretooth can be Creed at their best. Orion cannot win. However, Creed is a shit band and a shit film.

😆

Originally posted by leonidas
I’m legit curious about what’s so objectionable here. I mean they could beat hulk. At least the classic version. So is it Orion’s speed that makes it so outrageous? His skill? Would a grounded Orion with no Astro force beat savage hulk? Not IMO. I don’t really care enough to debate either side but I do find it interesting. What exactly makes this Orion different from any other one dimensional brick? Has to be more than his very limited combat speed showings, no?

So what they're rare? Orion isn't an idiot. He's far faster than them, he's fought blades opponents many times. He's an actual war god who has just known stuff because of that. You really think he's just going to stand around? People argue he'll need time to adjust to having his eyes webbed when he's speed blitzed while literally in a coma.

Originally posted by Ize19
Judging from the scans Galan posted, and the speed feats CDTM quoted, it sounds like "grounded" Orion isn't a match for Superman in speed. In fact, judging by those feats, he'd have his hands full with any two of this team, let alone all three. While he certainly has impressive durability, Wolverine and Sabretooth have the perfect weapons to bypass it, and Spider-man is the ideal guy to temporarily immobilize/slow him down for them. Taking into account Wolverine's experience working as a team with both of these guys, Spider-man's ability to stay out of danger, and Wolverine and Sabretooth's ability to recover from any early mistakes, I say the team takes the majority here.

O_o

Really. The speed feat CDTM referenced was throwing a bullet so fast the witness didn't observe it.

https://i.imgur.com/slYVqBP.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wyJZnrC.jpg

He literally moves faster than the eye can see. The witness thought the gun just exploded.

Originally posted by beatboks
O_o

Really. The speed feat CDTM referenced was throwing a bullet so fast the witness didn't observe it.

https://i.imgur.com/slYVqBP.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wyJZnrC.jpg

He literally moves faster than the eye can see. The witness thought the gun just exploded.

Wolverine has moved too fast for the eye to see on many occasions. Moving too fast for the eye to see is not a feat that puts him above this trio. Four years later, and people still have no idea how fast Wolverine, Sabertooth, and Spider-Man are.

Originally posted by Ize19
Wolverine has moved too fast for the eye to see on many occasions. Moving too fast for the eye to see is not a feat that puts him above this trio. Four years later, and people still have no idea how fast Wolverine, Sabertooth, and Spider-Man are.

And 4 years later people have no idea how fast Orion is. He was matching someone who moved so fast, early Post-CRISIS Superman couldn't even see.

Darkseid has talked about only having a nanosecond to act like "he only had seconds to act." Hyperbole? Like I said, too fast for Superman during that era to see. Who has at least two separate nanosecond feats at the time, including one where lowballing it he moves around freely, having a conversation, in a nanosecond(narration actually says within a fraction of a nanosecond or something to that effect).

At least 3 New Gods who don't seem to have powers or even officially don't have physical powers, have shown to have some degree of super speed. Kalibak while fighting Max Mercury (one of the Flash Family members) hit him while saying "your speed is less impressive to a god." Doesn't that look like they have at least some degree just from natural physical stats? Well, Orion blitzed a bunch of New Gods, while literally in a coma.

The example with Kalibak against Max should, to anybody reasonable (so not carter or Stilt), debunk the "oh Orion fighting Lightray isn't impressive, Kalibak hit him."

Yeah, Orion is faster.

Originally posted by leonidas
this is very different from a fight against, say thor. orion has a powerset much better suited to taking out this team. he is fast enough to bfr one (not permanently) and pick them off one at a time that way if he chooses. we've logan's claws be fairly ineffective against thor, and orion's skin would be at least as durable, likely a fair bit MORE durable. he is also an extremely skilled fighter. maybe not as good as logan, depending on which showings you go by, but very highly skilled--moreso than thor in straight h2h. i think the triom in straight h2h, would give thor a....very difficult time. but orion is more skilled on the ground, FAR faster, and is more durable (though damage soak would likely go to thor imo). overall, orion is just too much for these guys.

Originally posted by leonidas
such a great thread.... orion goes down. 👆

Hmmmmmmmm.....

Originally posted by Ize19
Wolverine has moved too fast for the eye to see on many occasions. Moving too fast for the eye to see is not a feat that puts him above this trio. Four years later, and people still have no idea how fast Wolverine, Sabertooth, and Spider-Man are.

And has he moved faster than thought?
https://i.imgur.com/2evq7PY.jpg

How would he go keeping up with Black racer?
https://i.imgur.com/odQPRKY.jpg
A legit DC speedster

Can they perceive to the microsecond?
http://imgur.com/tyba957

He has kept up with and reacted to light speeders like lightly many times. Not to mention when he did the bullet catch he was weakened and blinded.

Originally posted by beatboks
And has he moved faster than thought?
https://i.imgur.com/2evq7PY.jpg

How would he go keeping up with Black racer?
https://i.imgur.com/odQPRKY.jpg
A legit DC speedster

Can they perceive to the microsecond?
http://imgur.com/tyba957

He has kept up with and reacted to light speeders like lightly many times. Not to mention when he did the bullet catch he was weakened and blinded.

Wolverine has moved faster than Psylock telepathy.

How fast was Black Racer moving there? It's like me mentioning Wolverine stabbing Gladiator.

Lol @ microseconds.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't know why carver feels the need to lowball Orion so hard. It's strange.

😂 I'm not lowballing him though.

Originally posted by -Pr-

This is why.

Originally posted by carver9
😂 I'm not lowballing him though.

Yes you are. And the worst part is, you know you are.

I could excuse ignorance, but you're just being a dick now.

Originally posted by beatboks
And has he moved faster than thought?
https://i.imgur.com/2evq7PY.jpg

How would he go keeping up with Black racer?
https://i.imgur.com/odQPRKY.jpg
A legit DC speedster

Can they perceive to the microsecond?
http://imgur.com/tyba957

He has kept up with and reacted to light speeders like lightly many times. Not to mention when he did the bullet catch he was weakened and blinded.

70-120 meters per second (m/s) (156-270 miles per hour[mph])

there's been a long standing debate about speed of thought in rl vs comics. not sure it's ever really be settled.

Originally posted by leonidas
there's been a long standing debate about speed of thought in rl vs comics. not sure it's ever really be settled.

Originally posted by beatboks

How would he go keeping up with Black racer?
https://i.imgur.com/odQPRKY.jpg
A legit DC speedster
.

Originally posted by beatboks

How would he go keeping up with Black racer?
https://i.imgur.com/odQPRKY.jpg
A legit DC speedster
.