Originally posted by Delta1938
Well, carter didn't specify anything on the battlefield, and going by what Pr and another mod or two have said, that would make a featureless battlefield(being "featureless" isn't specifically said, but Pr said it was what they are). The rules do state they they're half a kilometer facing each other.http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t461496.html
Of course, it's carter's thread, so he can change it if he wants to protect Wolverine. 😆
But not sure if it'll help them. Orion did this while blind.
Well, Wolverine has completely vanished in a featureless environment before:
Not surprising, since he knows how to stand in plain sight without being seen:
[B]And what I said earlier about on paper of Orion is a far better fighter than them combined? I wasn't exaggerating. He's at least centuries old, and a "god of BATTLE."
Not like Wolverine's never outfought an immortal supernatural being. God of Battle, meet Angel of Death:
http://imgur.com/8StKfpW
http://imgur.com/Nhcokdh
http://imgur.com/MduuVgS
http://imgur.com/t32kMmE
http://imgur.com/3FKAaDm
http://imgur.com/UQFbsS7
http://imgur.com/zQL43bO
It's not an isolated incident either, he's taken him down many times in the past:
Ah, thanks.
No problem.
Yes, but if he did it faster than she could see, it'd still be faster than she could see. And there's other examples, as well, like what I posted above(that happens before the bullet catching scene, but same encounter).
Right, but there's doing something faster than an untrained girl can see, and there's moving too fast for full grown Mafia members to see:
Or soldiers specifically trained to take on Meta humans:
http://imgur.com/zqqXrmD
http://imgur.com/j9zBVYN
So you see why that aspect doesn't blow me away.
Originally posted by Ize19
Well, Wolverine has completely vanished in a featureless environment before:Not surprising, since he knows how to stand in plain sight without being seen:
Not like Wolverine's never outfought an immortal supernatural being. God of Battle, meet Angel of Death:
http://imgur.com/8StKfpW
http://imgur.com/Nhcokdh
http://imgur.com/MduuVgS
http://imgur.com/t32kMmE
http://imgur.com/3FKAaDm
http://imgur.com/UQFbsS7
http://imgur.com/zQL43bOIt's not an isolated incident either, he's taken him down many times in the past:
No problem.
Right, but there's doing something faster than an untrained girl can see, and there's moving too fast for full grown Mafia members to see:
Or soldiers specifically trained to take on Meta humans:
http://imgur.com/zqqXrmD
http://imgur.com/j9zBVYNSo you see why that aspect doesn't blow me away.
No way that god of battle is in the same tier as Orion.
Look at what he did to the JLA just by powering up:
He's also able to grow in size and destroy a big chunk of Apokolips:
Originally posted by Zack M
No way that god of battle is in the same tier as Orion.Look at what he did to the JLA just by powering up:
He's also able to grow in size and destroy a big chunk of Apokolips:
Neither of those abilities apply in this fight, and Azrael, the Angel of Death, is certainly comparable to Orion in terms of years of experience and fighting knowledge, which is what I was responding to.
Originally posted by Ize19
How many years? Millenia:How much knowledge? Enough that Wolverine, who's faced everyone from Shang Chi and Iron Fist, to Mandarin, Ogun, Stick and Gamora, hasn't faced a foe possessing such skill before or since:
That's it? New Gods have existed a lot longer.
Orion has knowledge and experience of warfare from across the entire universe.
Originally posted by Ize19
Longer than millenia? Prove it.So does Gamora, Dr. Strange still rated Azrael as the most skilled opponent Wolverine's ever fought.
In Seven Soldiers, it showed the New Gods arriving on earth before life even existed. Darkseid, for example, had time travel tech thousands of years ago.
Orion faced off, and nearly beaten Valkyrie, who is considered the best MA in the universe. And this was in a pacifist state. He wasn't even trying that hard.
Originally posted by Zack M
In Seven Soldiers, it showed the New Gods arriving on earth before life even existed. Darkseid, for example, had time travel tech thousands of years ago.Orion faced off, and nearly beaten Valkyrie, who is considered the best MA in the universe. And this was in a pacifist state. He wasn't even trying that hard.
And at what point was Orion born? Because from what I've read, he's one of the youngest New Gods. For the record, Angels predate life on Earth too.
Delta already pointed out that he left his pacifist state during that fight, in fact that was the point of it. It's already a great feat, why would you mislead and exaggerate?
Originally posted by Ize19
And at what point was Orion born? Because from what I've read, he's one of the youngest New Gods. For the record, Angels predate life on Earth too.Delta already pointed out that he left his pacifist state during that fight, in fact that was the point of it. It's already a great feat, why would you mislead and exaggerate?
He wasn't a 100% when they fought, yet still had the edge, from what I remember.
Not sure exactly how old, but definitely older than a thousand years.
Originally posted by Zack M
He wasn't a 100% when they fought, yet still had the edge, from what I remember.Not sure exactly how old, but definitely older than a thousand years.
According to Delta, he only took the edge once he'd become his old self. And was Valkyrie his physical equal? Was Orion said to be her superior in skill? Or are you misapplying the transitive property and attributing what's actually an advantage in fierceness and power to skill instead?
Millenia is thousands of years, millenium is one thousand. Even if Orion is a little older, which I don't think he is, no way he's a lot older than one of God's Archangels.
Originally posted by Ize19
According to Delta, he only took the edge once he'd become his old self. And was Valkyrie his physical equal? Was Orion said to be her superior in skill? Or are you misapplying the transitive property and attributing what's actually an advantage in fierceness and power to skill instead?Millenia is thousands of years, millenium is one thousand. Even if Orion is a little older, which I don't think he is, no way he's a lot older than one of God's Archangels.
He seemed superior, yes. He had the advantage late in the fight.
Thousands? Exactly how many years? New Gods started around 350,000 years ago. Still, that War god you posted isn't in the same class. Orion is older, stronger, faster, etc... Not even close.
Originally posted by Zack M
He seemed superior, yes. He had the advantage late in the fight.Thousands? Exactly how many years? New Gods started around 350,000 years ago. Still, that War god you posted isn't in the same class. Orion is older, stronger, faster, etc... Not even close.
Again, no context for this statement. He started winning the fight, but was it stated or shown to be skill? If the purpose of the fight was to overcome his pacifism, couldn't it have been his ferocity and power that started to overwhelm her?
Except the timelines I've seen stated that the residents of Apokolips and New Genesis only became Gods 30,000 years ago, and one timeline put the birth of Darkseid at 24,000 years ago: http://fastbak.tripod.com/ngchrono.htm
Considering Angels predate humans, and humans in Marvel were created about 200,000 years ago, I'm going to say Azrael's older than that.
That wasn't the point, I'm not arguing that Wolverine by himself is a match for Orion. My point was that even if Orion has incredible skill "on paper" as a couple of posters have put it, Wolverine's matched skill with people who have comparable "on paper" skill and experience.
I'm not saying that since he beat Azrael, he'll beat Orion, just that Orion's godhood and centuries of experience don't put him out of Wolverine's league, skillwise.
Btw, the Valkyrie scans are in this thread. I'm on my cell, so I can't post them.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-366361-respect-orion-the-dog-of-war.html
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Ize19, I'd like to ask the following.Wolverine has had thousands of more appearances than Orion so this should be easy.
[b]Could you cite 10 fights Logan has had to indicate his ability to last against Orion?
Add Creed in for that matter as well. [/B]
Wolverine vs Thor, Wolverine vs Hercules in Contest of Champions II, vs Ragnarok, vs Count Nefaria, vs Kierrok and the N'Garai, vs The Furies in Astonishing X-Men, Death Wolverine vs Hulk, vs Hulk in Wolverine & Hulk miniseries, vs Titannus in Marvel Team Up v3, vs World War Hulk.
Originally posted by Zack M
Btw, the Valkyrie scans are in this thread. I'm on my cell, so I can't post them.
Thanks, I checked them out. At the point at which Orion starts to take the upper hand, it's described thus:
"The fury, the frenzy, the untrammeled violence that is the seething heart of Orion... is loosed upon a Valkyra who seems suddenly sunken and diminished by the force of it." So, what I said earlier, which makes sense, since if he was the more skilled, Orion would be the greatest martial artist in the universe, not Valkyra.
Agree to disagree. Wolverine has yet to fight someone like Orion.
Entirely his equal? Maybe not. Equal in specific aspects? He absolutely has. Sure, I can agree to disagree.
