Wolverine, Sabertooth, and Spider-Man are three of the most accomplished fighters in comics. Possessing super speed, insane fighting ability, genius intellect, both in the scientific (Spider-Man) and combat (Wolverine and Sabertooth) areas, plus the ability to damage even beings as strong as Hulk. They're well balanced enough to fight and defeat an enraged Hulk. I still say they take Orion down, albeit after a great fight.
Originally posted by Ize19
Wolverine, Sabertooth, and Spider-Man are three of the most accomplished fighters in comics. Possessing super speed, insane fighting ability, genius intellect, both in the scientific (Spider-Man) and combat (Wolverine and Sabertooth) areas, plus the ability to damage even beings as strong as Hulk. They're well balanced enough to fight and defeat an enraged Hulk. I still say they take Orion down, albeit after a great fight.
Three of the most? There are better fighters in comics, IMO. Super speed? For a super soldier, maybe, but not on the level of a top tier like Orion. Spidey's a genius, but not on the level of Orion. Not even close.
Originally posted by Zack M
Three of the most? There are better fighters in comics, IMO. Super speed? For a super soldier, maybe, but not on the level of a top tier like Orion. Spidey's a genius, but not on the level of Orion. Not even close.
Three of the most, not the three most. Were you saying Orion is the number 1 top tier? Not equal, but enough that they could keep him off balance long enough to start piling on the damage. Spider-Man has as much talent for science as Reed Richards, and blew away the Scientist Supreme with technology he'd invented at 15 years old.
Originally posted by Ize19
Three of the most, not the three most. Were you saying Orion is the number 1 top tier? Not equal, but enough that they could keep him off balance long enough to start piling on the damage. Spider-Man has as much talent for science as Reed Richards, and blew away the Scientist Supreme with technology he'd invented at 15 years old.
Orion has Parker beat in terms of tech feats. When has SM created something that is powerful as the Genesis Box? He hasn't. Technology is the New God's specialty.
Neither one of these guys has faced someone like Orion.
Originally posted by Zack M
Orion has Parker beat in terms of tech feats. When has SM created something that is powerful as the Genesis Box? He hasn't. Technology is the New God's specialty.Neither one of these guys has faced someone like Orion.
It was an irrelevant tangent anyway. In this fight, Orion only has his physical stats to use. Just pointing out Parker's potential, really.
Orion's showing in Superman KOTW are a bit misunderstood, which is understandable given some of the apparent internal contradictions in the arc. That said, Orion is clearly on Superman's day-to-day level in terms of raw strength and durability.
Orion's speed is unclear--sure, Simonson gave him some low-level (for DC) superspeed. But I'm not sure that other writers have always given him such speed. Still, it's unlikely to matter here much.
Orion will win. Handily.
Well, if you go all the way back to the Kirby era, almost all gods had feats that look like super speed
Take Mr. Miracle: One moment he's caught in a trap, with an ax coming at him. The next he's across the room as the axe comes down. Essentially "teleports" on panel.
Looks like super speed to me.
As for Orion, he's reacted to and caught Lightray, who's well established as multiples of light speed.
Thor also has such feats, though we've never attributed true super speed to Thor (recent Jane-Thor feats notwithstanding). In DC, almost all the bricks with real super speed have Flash-like feats that recur regularly, and/or are repeatedly and explicitly said to have super speed. With Orion, this hasn't been the case. I'm not coming down definitely on either side with respect to whether he has low-level super speed, or 'just' Thor-level speed. I'm just saying it seems debatable to me, but I may not have seen all the relevant evidence.
As for travel speed, it does not necessarily indicate true, combat super speed.
Originally posted by Ize19
I'm sure you're a good guy, Zack, but I don't really feel like we're having a real conversation here...
Golgo is okay, but his DC fanboyism knows no bounds --- and by that I mean, if this thread was about Calendar Man facing Beyonder and Molecule Man, Golgo would bet on CM 😉
Pretty good debate here, btw. Keep it up, guys.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Golgo is okay, but his DC fanboyism knows no bounds --- and by that I mean, if this thread was about Calendar Man facing Beyonder and Molecule Man, Golgo would bet on CM 😉Pretty good debate here, btw. Keep it up, guys.
I was actually a wolverine fan before Orion or anything DC. That was looong ago, though.
Originally posted by leonidas
this is very different from a fight against, say thor. orion has a powerset much better suited to taking out this team. he is fast enough to bfr one (not permanently) and pick them off one at a time that way if he chooses. we've logan's claws be fairly ineffective against thor, and orion's skin would be at least as durable, likely a fair bit MORE durable. he is also an extremely skilled fighter. maybe not as good as logan, depending on which showings you go by, but very highly skilled--moreso than thor in straight h2h. i think the triom in straight h2h, would give thor a....very difficult time. but orion is more skilled on the ground, FAR faster, and is more durable (though damage soak would likely go to thor imo). overall, orion is just too much for these guys.
First off, happy birthday Leo! This is one scenario that could go down, although I don't think it'd be as easy as you're suggesting. After all, look how difficult of a time Ragnarok had just dislodging Wolverine, let alone bfr'ing him:
Factoring in that lightning is extra effective against Wolverine, Orion won't be flying, and Spider-man will be able to contribute more than just rescuing wayward teammates, plus Sabretooth is stronger, faster, and more durable than Wolverine, means this strategy isn't going to be as easy to implement as you might think.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Like this, say:Wolverine was BFR'd, but he came back to the battlefield in a short enough time that it's not a forum win. By then, however, his team may be defeated.
Just adding to leo's post. Wolvy (and Sabes'😉 entire fight strategy seems to be 'soak up the hits'.
Like I said to Leo above, I agree that it's a probable scenario. It's not the only one however, and both Wolverine and Sabertooth have proven quite capable of using their agility in combat. On top of that, with Spider-Man there to keep them in the field of combat, plus providing a mobile, long range distraction for Orion, isolating any of these fighters will be no small task.