Originally posted by h1a8
You misunderstood. It doesn't count toward proving that people don't just use high end feats to argue their character.
I understood. You literally tried to dismiss a feat because you don't like it, and then pulled up more numbers without sources to try and sound clever. Hell, even if we use your lowballing numbers, it's still better than the majority of his other feats, which would make it a high-end. And, again, AoS is canon to the MCU. Same universe. So, what happens there counts.
Originally posted by h1a8
The gun feat is still tops or close to tops. Like I said, you have no clue to how much force it took. Luke did it fairly casually too.
I do. But hey, by all means, prove that it was tops, and provide credible 3rd party sources for your numbers, because I don't trust anything you throw out.
Originally posted by h1a8
Again, non of those fights are anywhere close to Bifrost and other feat. He struggled in those fights.
A lot of people would disagree there. And the point is people have used them, which proves you wrong.
Originally posted by h1a8
If a human can send another human flying through the air with mere punches then they are punching within superhuman speed.
Prove MCU Punisher, Nobu and Kingpin hit at 70mph or more, seeing as they have been able to repeatedly tag Daredevil.
And even if you can manage that (which you can't), you are claiming they punch with superhuman speed now? Well then, concession accepted, seeing as:
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Or like I pointed out in another thread. Iron Fist and Daredevil have speed/reaction feats that suggest no-one without some degree of superspeed should be able to tag them.
Originally posted by Silent Master
I challenge you to a mod ruling, loser gets banned. You up for it?
Watch how he claims he won't put something up to the challenge that he already "refuted" (i.e. stuck his fingers in his ears and went "Nu uh!"😉, and then try and relaunch his conspiracy that everyone on KMC is against him and trying to set him up.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I understood. You literally tried to dismiss a feat because you don't like it, and then pulled up more numbers without sources to try and sound clever. Hell, even if we use your lowballing numbers, it's still better than the majority of his other feats, which would make it a high-end. And, again, AoS is canon to the MCU. Same universe. So, what happens there counts.
You didn't understand at all. This has nothing to do with what I said.
My comment is concerning whether people use only high end feats to support their character. Please reread the exchange. You are totally off the mark.
The yield strength of the pistol is at least 40,000psi. Luke did it fairly casually.I do. But hey, by all means, prove that it was tops, and provide credible 3rd party sources for your numbers, because I don't trust anything you throw out.
A lot of people would disagree there. And the point is people have used them, which proves you wrong.
This is a straw man. My claim is that sending someone flying through the air with a punch requires more than 70mph of hand speed.Prove MCU Punisher, Nobu and Kingpin hit at 70mph or more, seeing as they have been able to repeatedly tag Daredevil.
And even if you can manage that (which you can't), you are claiming they punch with superhuman speed now? Well then, concession accepted, seeing as:
Originally posted by h1a8
You didn't understand at all. This has nothing to do with what I said.
My comment is concerning whether people use only high end feats to support their character. Please reread the exchange. You are totally off the mark.
Originally posted by h1a8
I didn't even know what you are talking about until I looked it up. No one knows about feat without watching AOS. So it doesn't count.
And it wasn't a feat shown by Cap. Cap was said to supposedly did it faster. We don't know. Plus the coefficient of static friction could have been anywhere from 0.3 to 0.6. That means the feat is worth 3 to 6 tons.
Finally, I have a problem using AOS feats to support Marvel movie characters.
So it's many reasons people don't bring up that feat. And none of them are because it's a super high end showing.
I understood you perfectly. You are now just backtracking. You tried to use reasoning that a feat isn't valid if not everyone has seen it, and listed your personal issue with using feats from the show for the movie characters, as part of your reasoning for dismissing it. Just like I said.
Originally posted by h1a8
The yield strength of the pistol is at least 40,000psi. Luke did it fairly casually.
I said I wanted credible 3rd party sources that prove that it was greater than the other feats mentioned. I don't trust numbers you just throw out, and with good reason.
Originally posted by h1a8
This is a straw man. My claim is that sending someone flying through the air with a punch requires more than 70mph of hand speed.
You need learn what a strawman is. Also, I was addressing MCU characters that have specifically tagged Daredevil repeatedly, despite his other reaction feats. Therefore, those are the relevant characters to the discussion. And no, that is not all you said. Your first post said he had no feats to suggest he could not get hit by a peak human or greater. You then said MC humans hit at 70mph or greater. I then asked you to prove the ones actually relevant to the discussion have done so, seeing as they have tagged DD, because you claimed defending from a 200mph object from 30 feet or more takes less effort than defending from a 70mph punch from 3 feet away, as an argument for him not having the feats to dodge those blows.
@H1 I bring the Daredevil thing up for a reason. According to your numbers, someone would need to be punching at beyond normal human speed to tag him, based on his high end reaction feats. Based on the standard you are using for Supergirl, the same assumption should be made for him in forum fights. Yet that does not happen. Anyone on here who really knows me knows I am a big Daredevil fan, yet I have never once claimed that it would take beyond human punching speed to tag him in a forum fight. Even when I argue for him, I concede that a highly skilled enough human fighter could manage it (like Nobu or Punisher), or a big enough brute that could muscle through his defense (Fisk). And I have never seen anyone else claim enhanced speed is needed to tag him either. Which, again, disproves your argument that everyone only use high-ends while ignoring lower combat showings.
And your statement earlier that "none" of the reasons people don't use the bulldozer feat is because it is a super high-end is blatantly false too, seeing as I cited exactly that reason for not using it in the X-24 vs Cap thread, before this discussion even took place.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
This.
And what's more, this argument got spurred by Silent mentioning we don't completely dismiss other feats in favour of high-end one-offs. Beyond everything else, him bending guns is also not a one-off, and it is by no means the only feats used for him in threads. Myself and others have also mentioned more mundane feats, such as the couch throw etc. as well as his fights with Jessica Jones, Diamondback, various groups of fodder, and his prison fights in Seagate. Which, along with people not using the bulldozer, multiple people actually mentioning Thor's fights in various threads, and people not claiming it requires beyond human speed to tag DD in forum fights, further disproves his high-ends only claim.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I understood you perfectly. You are now just backtracking. You tried to use reasoning that a feat isn't valid if not everyone has seen it, and listed your personal issue with using feats from the show for the movie characters, as part of your reasoning for dismissing it. Just like I said.I said I wanted credible 3rd party sources that prove that it was greater than the other feats mentioned. I don't trust numbers you just throw out, and with good reason.
You need learn what a strawman is. Also, I was addressing MCU characters that have specifically tagged Daredevil repeatedly, despite his other reaction feats. Therefore, those are the relevant characters to the discussion. And no, that is not all you said. Your first post said he had no feats to suggest he could not get hit by a peak human or greater. You then said MC humans hit at 70mph or greater. I then asked you to prove the ones actually relevant to the discussion have done so, seeing as they have tagged DD, because you claimed defending from a 200mph object from 30 feet or more takes less effort than defending from a 70mph punch from 3 feet away, as an argument for him not having the feats to dodge those blows.
People don't use the bulldozer feat for Cap for several reasons.
1. They don't know about it.
2. It's hear say from another character (Cap wasn't shown performing it).
3. Some people disagree with using AOS in these threads.
They don't choose to use it because it's way too high end.
So when I said "it" doesn't count, I wasn't referring to the feat. I was referring to the example you were using to prove people don't always use high end feats to support their character.
I'm basically saying that catching arrows don't contradict getting hit by superhuman level punches.
But, Anyone who hit DD straight up (no plot behind it) with absolutely no superhuman level speed is contradicted by DD catching arrows. This means, in a forum, he will operate at the arrow catching ability.
Originally posted by TheVaultDwellerThere are plenty of ways to tag DD without being superhumanly fast. But these are plot devices. Taking a hit to hit DD, DD being occupied by multiple attackers, etc. Now if a human level attacker threw a single punch then DD would block or dodge it every time.
@H1 I bring the Daredevil thing up for a reason. According to your numbers, someone would need to be punching at beyond normal human speed to tag him, based on his high end reaction feats. Based on the standard you are using for Supergirl, the same assumption should be made for him in forum fights. Yet that does not happen. Anyone on here who really knows me knows I am a big Daredevil fan, yet I have never once claimed that it would take beyond human punching speed to tag him in a forum fight. Even when I argue for him, I concede that a highly skilled enough human fighter could manage it (like Nobu or Punisher), or a big enough brute that could muscle through his defense (Fisk). And I have never seen anyone else claim enhanced speed is needed to tag him either. Which, again, disproves your argument that everyone only use high-ends while ignoring lower combat showings.And your statement earlier that "none" of the reasons people don't use the bulldozer feat is because it is a super high-end is blatantly false too, seeing as I cited exactly that reason for not using it in the X-24 vs Cap thread, before this discussion even took place.
Originally posted by h1a8
People don't use the bulldozer feat for Cap for several reasons.
1. They don't know about it.
2. It's hear say from another character (Cap wasn't shown performing it).
3. Some people disagree with using AOS in these threads.They don't choose to use it because it's way too high end.
So when I said "it" doesn't count, I wasn't referring to the feat. I was referring to the example you were using to prove people don't always use high end feats to support their character.
Ignorance of a feat does not invalidate it. Using that logic, anyone who hasn't seen a specific film or TV show can pull the same card if they want to dismiss a feat. It's the responsibility of the poster entering the discussion to make themselves aware of any relevant material. Especially when 99% of clips end up on Youtube nowadays.
Also, people can disagree all they want. If it is part of the same canonical universe, then it is usable, unless the OP specifically states otherwise. This also applies, for example, to using Clone Wars or Rebels feats for Star Wars threads.
The closest to reasonable argument is the hearsay one. But for the people who have actually watched AoS, and know how they operate on the show and how SHIELD works, the notion that an instructor would simply make something like that up is highly questionable.
Originally posted by h1a8
I'm basically saying that catching arrows don't contradict getting hit by superhuman level punches.But, Anyone who hit DD straight up (no plot behind it) with absolutely no superhuman level speed is contradicted by DD catching arrows. This means, in a forum, he will operate at the arrow catching ability.
And I agree that, by high end feats, it would take superspeed punches to hit DD.
But, and this is the big point, that is not how people debate the character in question on these forums. I have seen people use the arrow catches and dodges to argue that he is faster than other characters who don't have similar feats, but never to suggest it would take superspeed to hit him. Even when arguing for him. I know for a fact that I haven't, even though Netflix DD is probably my favourite MCU character. Which, like I said, is proof that people don't always necessarily just use high ends. Combat showings do get factored in, even if they don't necessarily line up with high ends. Now, granted, some people do just stick to high-ends for their character while throwing low-ends at their opponent, but it is hardly everyone.
Originally posted by Silent Master
More importantly, h1 didn't ask anyone why they don't use the feat. So his list of 'reasons' is really just a list of uninformed guesses.
Well, I already pointed out why I don't use it. Even if you lowball the feat, it is still highly inconsistent with his other strength showings. And it creates a domino effect, considering it influences how we judge more than just Cap, such as the strength of Bucky's metal arm, for example.
Just watched a recent episode of Supergirl, she was almost killed by a swarm of nano bots. Someone deactivated their programming using a simple computer, or they would have swarmed over her whole body and face and killed her. This is way too typical of her. Can you imagine anything like this happening to Thor or General Zod?