Manchester terror attack- 19 dead, 50 wounded

Hatred against islam pretty much justified atm. Hatred against people who would rather kill you and your own, is an emotional response that can fuel a man to protect his family, and perhaps his nation in a moments notice. Hatred against people who rather have the values that built a nation eradicated for open border market bazzars is a morally justified position. The concept of love is redundant if you do not love discriminately. Love those in which you wish to protect, hate those who wish to install the opposite.

Perhaps it would be different if it were an isolated incident, but these incidents, that haven't happened across Europe in recent history keep involving the same suspects.

And the next attack will be Islam. And the one after that.

I wonder how many little girls have to die for the picture to sink in?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I don't care if you want to criticize a religion, That wasn't the point I was raising. There is a massive difference between criticism and hatred, Leech. Learn it.

Oh and yes, this is pretty much the ultimate act of of worship. Killing infidels basically assures paradise in heaven for islamists, even if they have commited other sins; adultery, drugs, stealing etc. The Koran is a rule book for how a muslim behaves given the circumstances.

When there are few of them, they are "peaceful" and resort to a form of verbal and social subterfuge, claiming to be victims, etc.

When there are many of them, they do the aggressive, physical form of jihad in the form of bombings, mass rapes, public decapitations, and general humiliation of the kaffir (non muslims).

Don't pretend that Muhammed just "went violent" in the last ten years of his life. That was the plan all along, he just needed an army first.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
I hate the bombing of innocent women and children, the subjugated of women, killing of apostates and homosexuals, etc and *I* am the bad guy? No, it's okay to hate those things. Learn that, Zero.

Butt... butt... the majority of musli...

Originally posted by SaltySally
Hatred against islam pretty much justified atm. Hatred against people who would rather kill you and your own, is an emotional response that can fuel a man to protect his family, and perhaps his nation in a moments notice. Hatred against people who rather have the values that built a nation eradicated for open border market bazzars is a morally justified position. The concept of love is redundant if you do not love thing discriminately. Love those in which you wish to protect, hate those who wish to install upon the opposite.

Perhaps it would be different if it were an isolated incident, but these incidents, that haven't happened across europe in recent history keep involving the same suspects.

And the next attack will be islam. And the one after that.

I wonder how many little girls have to die for the picture to sink in?

If we take out and remove the religious aspect of all of this, then you'll probably trace the roots of the animosity back to events that happened as far back as World War 1. The Islamists were not always an enemy. Infact, they helped the Allies against the Ottoman Empire in the war.

However, adding in the quagmire that is religious differences and you have a conflict that stretches back more than a millenia or more. People themselves may not live long, but old hatreds never seem to die away. Unfortunately, people remember old slights far more than they remember friendships. After the whole issue with Palestine and Israel came to pass after World War 1, it was only a matter of time before old hates would take heart and stoke the fires again. The Soviet invasion of Afganistan, and the USA's rapid withdrawal was simply the last percieved slight that lit that fuse.

Now, don't get me wrong, because personally I don't know why the US pulling out after the Soviets retreated would have pissed off the Islamists, but I do know that after that, the relations broke down so fast, it was unreal. Negotiations never even got the chance to take place before a new Jihad was called, and this time on their erstwhile allies against the Soviets. Some say it was because the US tried to take control of the oil... I dunno. But the wholesale slaughter of civilians is something I can never ever tollerate. I lambasted the US for dropping the atom bomb for the same reason.

Hatred against anyone is unjustified IMO

Originally posted by SaltySally
Butt... butt... the majority of musli...

Finally somebody with some sense. Thank you.

Don't know if those numbers are accurate, but the point is that even if you cut them in half or even down to just 10-20% it's still alarming.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
I hate the bombing of innocent women and children, the subjugated of women, killing of apostates and homosexuals, etc and *I* am the bad guy? No, it's okay to hate those things. Learn that, Zero.

In response to your inferrence that I don't hate and lament the fact that stupid people did a stupid thing that resulted in the deaths of the innocent. Please don't put direct words in my mouth. I do hate and lament those things. The difference between you and I, is the fact that I don't generalize and blame everyone who associates with that faith for the actions of the moronic zealots. I personally know many good muslims who practice their faith in peace. They abhor the things the extremists do as much as anyone.

This is why I hate guilt by association almost as much, it spreads the hatred and fear to people who had nothing to do with the actions of the stupid few.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
If we take out and remove the religious aspect of all of this, then you'll probably trace the roots of the animosity back to events that happened as far back as World War 1. The Islamists were not always an enemy. Infact, they helped the Allies against the Ottoman Empire in the war.

However, adding in the quagmire that is religious differences and you have a conflict that stretches back more than a millenia or more. People themselves may not live long, but old hatreds never seem to die away. Unfortunately, people remember old slights far more than they remember friendships. After the whole issue with Palestine and Israel came to pass after World War 1, it was only a matter of time before old hates would take heart and stoke the fires again. The Soviet invasion of Afganistan, and the USA's rapid withdrawal was simply the last percieved slight that lit that fuse.

Now, don't get me wrong, because personally I don't know why the US pulling out after the Soviets retreated would have pissed off the Islamists, but I do know that after that, the relations broke down so fast, it was unreal. Negotiations never even got the chance to take place before a new Jihad was called, and this time on their erstwhile allies against the Soviets. Some say it was because the US tried to take control of the oil... I dunno. But the wholesale slaughter of civilians is something I can never ever tollerate. I lambasted the US for dropping the atom bomb for the same reason.

What I got from this, rather off topic, post; Muslims are such conniving assholes, that even after aiding them, they will try to bite your hand off when you walk away. I'm not sure how this post is meant to quell the flames of hatred for such a violent ideology, if it was at all.

This whole; 'hatred is not the answer' response to these attacks is nothing more than waving a white flag for more of them.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Finally somebody with some sense. Thank you.

Don't know if those numbers are accurate, but the point is that even if you cut them in half or even down to just 10-20% it's still alarming.

If anything, it's a conservative measure of how bad things are.

Originally posted by SaltySally
What I got from this, rather off topic, post; Muslims are such conniving assholes, that even after aiding them, they will try to bite your hand off when you walk away. I'm not sure how this post is meant to quell the flames of hatred for such a violent ideology, if it was at all.

This whole; 'hatred is not the answer' response to these attacks is nothing more than waving a white flag for more of them.

Off topic? It's perhaps more on topic than most posts involving the animosity, because I'm trying to explore and explain the source of it. Why do they do what they do? why do we respond the way we do? It all stems from something.

I'm NOT saying don't hate what the few do, what I am saying is don't hate the many for what the few did. That would be a no different generalization than saying, every human is capable of murder, thus all should be hated for it, or every man is capable of rape, and therefore all men should be hated for it.

Off topic? It's perhaps more on topic than most posts involving the animosity, because I'm trying to explore and explain the source of it. Why do they do what they do? why do we respond the way we do? It all stems from something.

For Alllah's sake, just read the Koran. It's needless to say that this religion is not going to calm down. It is simply not designed to ever be calm. Anybody who thinks it is inherently peaceful needs to just read the damn thing. Read this book and then tell me it's calm and soothing and tolerant. No, not every Mussfag has to be out in the open, killing innocents for people to want to expunge this ass backwards ideology from every crevice of western civilisation. Hatred. or at least strong distaste against those who stand back and lie, quite deliberately about the nature of Islam, should be excused too. Even if their just being ignorant about the topic, that's not an excuse for the lack of research.

Originally posted by SaltySally
For Alllah's sake, just read the Koran. It's needless to say that this religion is not going to calm down. It is simply not designed to ever be calm. Anybody who thinks it is inherently peaceful needs to just read the damn thing. Read this book and then tell me it's calm and soothing and tolerant.

Uuuugh...

For f@cks sake, you are MISSING the main thrust of my point....

I AM NOT DEFENDING RELIGION IN ANY FORM! Can this not be said more clearly? I am not defending any ****ing faith. I am defending people. I am defending people because the vast majority of PEOPLE themselves are only being persecuted and hated BECAUSE of their faith. I give no shits what you say about the faith itself, call it spoopy poop, an open sewer, a festering boil on the ass of humanity, I would be inclined to agree, because I hate blind faith and what it makes people do.

BUT, I don't believe in the tenents of guilt by association. Just because a person believes a particular thing, a thing others have used to try and justify atrocities, does not make the innocent people guilty of the atrocities.

Are you dense?

Darkstrom Zero Q : Where do these killings stem from, why do they do what they do?

Answer : Read the Koran

Surely that isn't too difficult to understand. dipshit.

Originally posted by SaltySally
Are you dense?

Darkstrom Zero Q : Where do these killings stem from, why do they do what they do?

Answer : Read the Koran

Surely that isn't too difficult to understand. dipshit.

Again, circular debating tactic, combined with ad hominem because I don't share your reaction. Wow. You are not so different from those you seem to hate there, Salty.

And if you think the Koran is the only reason, you're deluded. Otherwise they would have done the deed back during WW1 like I mentioned, or any number of times in the intervening years between then and the end of the Cold War. Congratulations Sally, you fail history 101 and deductive reasoning 102.

See, I can get snarky too. Difference is, I have logical reasoning not clouded by irrational hatred.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Again, circular debating tactic,

Circular reasoning would mean the end isn't justified, in this case, it is. The answer is a glaring beacon in the ocean. It's called finding the most parsimonious answer. If individuals are claiming to kill in the name of religion and their religion encourages it, you can pretty much guess what the problem is.

combined with ad hominem because I don't share your reaction. Wow. You are not so different from those you seem to hate there, Salty.

Not, really. The big difference is that I'm not attempting mental backflips to justify an ideology not only allows for the killing of little girls, but begs for it. You can claim all day that this is not the case, but you're pretending that hatred for such things is the true evil plaguing society, than you might as well suck the cawk of every islamic individual in Briton. I suppose you believe that if we just open our arms out with warm embrace to more of the same, the problem would cease to exist? Because that is clearly not the case.

And if you think the Koran is the only reason, you're deluded.
Otherwise they would have done the deed back during WW1 like I mentioned, or any number of times in the intervening years between then and the end of the Cold War. Congratulations Sally, you fail history 101 and deductive reasoning 102.

The occurence happening today, is happening because the Muslim population in the Uk, or other parts of europe, since world war I, has grown exponentially. Needless to say, they didn't have as many opportunities to commit jihad in our homelands for logistical reasons. If i live in Istanbul, it's going to be rather hard for me to commit terror in Australia without some rather impressive missile capability. As for History 101, lets look at those growing demographics.

Reasoning 101 : You increase the amount of Koran adherents in your area, the acts of Jihad also increase. Shocker. Back then, when Muslim immigrants kept arriving to western countries:

- in very low numbers,
- thoroughly filtered for education, character and cultural compatibility,
- strongly geographically dispersed both in terms of origin and host countries, and
- with no advantages in the market or before the law,

See, I can get snarky too.

You're not particularly good at it, though, and you're still a dipshit.

Difference is, I have logical reasoning not clouded by irrational hatred. [/B]

And yet, I'm the only one here citing facts. By the way, there's nothing morally wrong with hating people for their believes. Honestly, this is how a future shitlord is created.

----

Waking up after death:
Shitlib: "What happened?"
Divine hierarchy representative: "You were killed by a Muslim suicide bomber."
Shitlib: "He was not a true Muslim if he did that."
Divine hierarchy representative: "No - he was. The time for lies is over. His religion taught him that he would get 72 virgins and killing you would get him there. Mohammed would have applauded it. The ones you called racist were right."
Shitlib: "So, most of what I heard on the news were lies?"
Divine hierarchy representative: "Pretty much."
Shitlib: "What about the terrorist. Will he get 72 virgins?"
Divine hierarchy representative laughing: "Of course not. That religion was created by a warlord, who told lies to his followers to die for him, so he would have better motivated soldiers. But you have been lied to by your rulers as well who claimed that Islam was a religion of peace. You attacked men who warned you about it and called them racist."
Shitlib: "So, what happens now?"
Divine hierarchy representative: "It has been decided that you need a more diverse experience in your next life. We have a place for your next incarnation as a nice little girl named Aisha in Afghanistan. There you will find out more about Islam on a first-hand basis."
Shitlib: "Great - I will be a double oppressed minority group."
Divine hierarchy representative: "Let's say - it will be a good learning experience for you."

Addendum:

When you have a gigantic influx of people loyal to a culture completely at odds with the West, the more likely these atrocities become. I mean the Muslim world itself is full of instability and inter-sect atrocities on a regular basis. What hope is there for peace when they are in the West?

I have Muslim (acquaintances), and friends of various religions and races. The problem comes when any "minority" group that is diametrically opposed to Western ideology gets to such a level that it becomes a virtual MAJORITY in its own area. In Britain, we see Muslim schools, and Muslims who never speak with non Muslims.

Saying this atrocity was caused because "we all need to be more tolerant, loving and globalist" is outrageous garbage. Manchester isn't one community. Thats a big lie. It has numerous groups with some ASPECTS of community. The Muslim and British ones are largely/very much separate. I mean 75% of Muslims in Pakistan actually MARRY a cousin (58% of them in Britain).

Its like having an idiot kill people doing 100 in a 30mph zone, then saying it was caused because the speed limit wasn't 140!

Singing this Kumbaya bullshit isn't the solution to this problem. Its one of the root causes.

More Addendum - A Final Solution:

This is a religion far more negative than it seems. That guy who blew himself up with a nail bomb killing and maiming dozens of teenage girls - he according to Islam is now living in paradise, because he killed infidel whores and degenerate non-Muslims.

This is 100% sanctioned by Islam.

And before anyone compares it again to road casualties or accidents happening at home - THIS IS ****ING DIFFERENT! We already do everything we can to be careful in the house or driving carefully having rules and cops. Anything else would literally have to ban driving, collapse civilization or tell you to stop going on ladders to screw in a light-bulb.

Preventing Islamic terror is simple:

1. Ban Islam
2. Close all mosques
3. Close all Islamic schools
4. Stop importing Muslims to the West
5. Tell the ****ing truth about Mohammed, Islam and his biography - he was not a holy man, this is not a religion of peace, this is a bloody medieval war cult that served only Mohammed and his followers - great for medieval war and we can acknowledge the great warriors from their culture who were no pussies, but we should not call this anything it is not. It is not a solution of Western problems - it is a ****ing cancer coupled with AIDS and syphilis.

I can understand people not wanting blanket hatred of Muslims. There are many who would never admit that Mohammed commanded them to do this or would never do this. But their religion tells it and many will do it. This will NEVER STOP UNTIL SOMEONES STOPS IT POINT BLANK.

If no one stops it, then Islam will dominate over the world in one shitty medieval sharia zone. The other alternatives are that the Global politicians will do a 180 and usher in either an Orwellian super-police state or a global war against Islam will be started. And this will cost more lives than my proposal of fighting back against the ideology right now.

Originally posted by SaltySally
*SNIP*

Sorry Salty, I'm not going to sit here and debate with you the reasons why one form of hatred is more justified than the other or not. All you do is escalate the cycle of hatred and vengeance no different than those you really do hate.

You hate them, they hate you and both sides have their reasons, and I find both sides abhorrent for not being able to be reasonable and let go of the need for vengeance. Thats not me being naive or a dipshit, thats me expressing my exasperation at the sheer folly of it. Nobody wins in that scenario, and nobody ever will, but both sides feel the need to completely exterminate the other. Even though both sides are made up of human beings, and the only divisive factor is a set of relative, subjective, faiths... In the end, it is all bullshit that should never result in murder, nevermind genocide.

Originally posted by SaltySally

----

Waking up after death:
Shitlib: "What happened?"
Divine hierarchy representative: "You were killed by a Muslim suicide bomber."
Shitlib: "He was not a true Muslim if he did that."
Divine hierarchy representative: "No - he was. The time for lies is over. His religion taught him that he would get 72 virgins and killing you would get him there. Mohammed would have applauded it. The ones you called racist were right."
Shitlib: "So, most of what I heard on the news were lies?"
Divine hierarchy representative: "Pretty much."
Shitlib: "What about the terrorist. Will he get 72 virgins?"
Divine hierarchy representative laughing: "Of course not. That religion was created by a warlord, who told lies to his followers to die for him, so he would have better motivated soldiers. But you have been lied to by your rulers as well who claimed that Islam was a religion of peace. You attacked men who warned you about it and called them racist."
Shitlib: "So, what happens now?"
Divine hierarchy representative: "It has been decided that you need a more diverse experience in your next life. We have a place for your next incarnation as a nice little girl named Aisha in Afghanistan. There you will find out more about Islam on a first-hand basis."
Shitlib: "Great - I will be a double oppressed minority group."
Divine hierarchy representative: "Let's say - it will be a good learning experience for you."

Lol...that is a good one.