Wonder Woman vs. Superman

Originally posted by FrothByte
Nothing in there is me saying Superman has no combat speed. That quote you provided from me is vague, and the reason it's vague is because you took it out of context, since it was done in connection to the previous post.

Bottom line is, you misunderstood my statement and are now trying to put your own spin to it. Considering that it was MY statement, I do believe my interpretation of it holds more weight than yours yes?

And in case you still can't understand then let me spell it out for you for the hundredth time: I am not saying that Superman has no combat speed. If that's how you understood my statement then it was a misunderstanding. What I said was that Wonder Woman had far better combat speed feats than Superman.

Now, are you going to let this go or are you going to lie some more?

Did you really just call someone a "liar" on the internet? If so, ha, but an active debate where there is record on inception is hardly the place to lie. But I will entertain you, where did I "lie" on the internet?

So you are retracting your claim that Superman "doesn't perform complex maneuvers at super speed." Which you consider "combat speed", are you retracting this claim?

Originally posted by Sable
Did you really just call someone a "liar" on the internet? If so, ha, but an active debate where there is record on inception is hardly the place to lie. But I will entertain you, where did I "lie" on the internet?

So you are retracting your claim that Superman "doesn't perform complex maneuvers at super speed." Which you consider "combat speed", are you retracting this claim?

Good god man, I was already offering you a way out. Do you really want to continue gnawing on this bone?

No, I am not retracting any claim I made. I simply clarified a statement. Superman still doesn't perform complex maneuvers at super speed. Does he have combat speed? Of course he does, everyone does. He simply doesn't have combat speed as fast as WW. And no, I never claimed he doesn't have combat speed, that's the lie that you continue to propagate. You lied by claiming I said he doesn't have combat speed, and you were proven time and again to be wrong. So just drop it.

Was my statement vague? Sure, but only because you took it out of context. Which is why I'm going out on a limb to explain it to you.... multiple times and very slowly... hoping that you'll eventually understand. You started this debate decently well but if you don't drop this then I'm convinced you're nothing but a troll.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Good god man, I was already offering you a way out. Do you really want to continue gnawing on this bone?

No, I am not retracting any claim I made. I simply clarified a statement. Superman still doesn't perform complex maneuvers at super speed. Does he have combat speed? Of course he does, everyone does. He simply doesn't have combat speed as fast as WW. And no, I never claimed he doesn't have combat speed, that's the lie that you continue to propagate. You lied by claiming I said he doesn't have combat speed, and you were proven time and again to be wrong. So just drop it.

Was my statement vague? Sure, but only because you took it out of context. Which is why I'm going out on a limb to explain it to you.... multiple times and very slowly... hoping that you'll eventually understand. You started this debate decently well but if you don't drop this then I'm convinced you're nothing but a troll.

So blocking bullets is "combat speed" but fighting mid air, while moving hypersonic around buildings and such is "simple manuevers." And this is also not considered a "complex maneuver."

So am I assume blocking bullets from a 1930's era weapon is "complex maneuvers" but traveling hypersonic while stopping on a dime, moving in between buildings, while flying and fighting, punching through satellites, fighting while re entering earths atmosphere is "simple maneuvers."

This sounds pretty complex to me.

My analysis of your statement is not a lie. Its simply stated as you wrote it.

I am simply debating your points, but if you want to continue to insult.

Originally posted by Sable
So blocking bullets is "combat speed" but fighting mid air, while moving hypersonic around buildings and such is "simple manuevers." And this is also not considered a "complex maneuver."

So am I assume blocking bullets from a 1930's era weapon is "complex maneuvers" but traveling hypersonic while stopping on a dime, moving in between buildings, while flying, punching through satellites, fighting while re entering earths atmosphere is "simple maneuvers."

You're missing a few things in your analogies. Punching and fighting are complex maneuvers. Now all you need to do is show me Superman fighting and throwing multiple punches at super speed to convince me he has combat speed as fast as Wonder Woman.

You're going to have to show me a clip of Superman and Zod throwing combinations and blocking/dodging at hypersonic speed. Because yes, propelling yourself forward, no matter how fast, is still an uncomplicated maneuver. Weaving in and out of buildings is complex but then I don't recall Superman and Zod doing so in hypersonic speed. They were flying fast, sure, but nowhere near this hypersonic speed you keep harping about.

And no, your analysis of my statement is completely false, because nowhere there did I say Superman has no combat speed. It's just not there, and that makes you a flat out liar. If it was there you'd have been able to quote me already.

He flew from the Arctic to Metropolis in less time then it took for Lois to fall halfway from a building in Metropolis. He can fly way beyond hypersonic, some speculate its near light speed.

Zod and him went from Metropolis to in space in less then a second. So yea hypersonic isn't even close.

If it was a "misunderstanding" of what you said or meant, that doesn't make anyone a liar.

So what does "Superman still doesn't perform complex maneuvers at super speed" mean, if it doesn't mean he doesn't have combat speed? And what makes blocking bullets that great of a feat? Its a low end feat.

Originally posted by Sable
He flew from the Arctic to Metropolis in less time then it took for Lois to fall halfway from a building in Metropolis. He can fly way beyond hypersonic, some speculate its near light speed.

Zod and him went from Metropolis to in space in less then a second. So yea hypersonic isn't even close.

If it was a "misunderstanding" of what you said or meant, that doesn't make anyone a liar.

So what does "Superman still doesn't perform complex maneuvers at super speed" mean, if it doesn't mean he doesn't have combat speed? And what makes blocking bullets that great of a feat? Its a low end feat.

"Superman still doesn't perform complex maneuvers at super speed" means that he doesn't have combat speed feats as fast as WW, who's able to consistently do complex maneuvers at super speed, whereas Superman seems limited to only doing them in bursts.

Superman and Zod went from metropolis to space in less than a second (hypersonic speed) and yet didn't perform complex maneuvers yes? Since they only flew in a straight line. You're missing the point here. I never said Superman can't fly at hypersonic speed. I also never said he can't do complex maneuvers. What I'm saying is he can't perform complex maneuvers at super speed. At your supposed hypersonic speed. If you disagree please provide an example.

And yes, you're a liar because even though I had already tried to clarify the misunderstanding multiple times, you still kept insisting on your version of MY statement and even putting words into my mouth, words I never stated, just to support your argument. I told you to drop it.

Wow, you are getting pretty mad over nothing. And if I told you to drop something, would you? Are you used to taking orders from people on the internet you don't know?

Also, based on Netwons theory of gravity. Gravity is 20 billion times faster then light. And Anti-gravity can meet or exceed that speed. Since we do know his flight power is based on anti-gravity, so his speed, would in theory be unmeasurable. He has always been as fast or as strong as he needed to be.

So any reaction he does at his lower or even upper limits is way beyond any bullet blocking feat. If he was going at lets say mach 50, and going to puch someone, but didn't have equal reaction time, he would pass right by and not do anything. His reaction time is way beyond bullet blocking. Just because he has not blocked bullets doesn't mean he can't.

Iron-man can throw punches while flying, does that mean he has superspeed reactions?

Depends on what his suit allows. But his brain and body are still human, so he's limited on his physiology I would assume.

Either Iron-man has superspeed reaction or he doesn't, which is it?

I would think he would have some superspeed reaction because the human brain can think faster then light, so his suit could react accordingly. Any hit from him that would make anyone get tossed a far distance would have to have some sort of super speed based on physics. Speed x Mass = Force.

So your answer is that Tony has superspeed reactions?

I notice you keep asking question after question. Do you even know what the bar is for super speed?

Originally posted by FrothByte

You're going to have to show me a clip of Superman and Zod throwing combinations and blocking/dodging at hypersonic speed.

Sure thing

YouTube video

Min 2:45-2:48, replay it a few times and you will see how fast they are trading blows.

It appears the video isn't working, here is the link if the video doesn't work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSjBNf4x3DE

Unless the film is being slowed down, which judging by the things in the background it's not. They aren't really fighting all that fast for speedsters.

TIL Tony is a speedster

Originally posted by Silent Master
Unless the film is being slowed down, which judging by the things in the background it's not. They aren't really fighting all that fast for speedsters.

So the only way to qualify superspeed is if the film is cinematography slowed down? Thats bollocks, their arms are moving at superspeed, he punches Zod at min 2:48 and its blurred out and Zod gets tossed at super speed away from him and hits a car at least 50 ft away instantly. They are pushing and blocking at extreme speed.

They were moving fast yes, however they were still within the range of human perception. Guys like the X-Men Quicksilver or Metro man could have had that entire fight before anyone watching could blink.

Originally posted by FrothByte
You're right, I shouldn't have stooped to your level. Insults are only used by those that can't seem to win arguments intelligently. My apologies, a moment of weakness.

"I can't throw bants with NemeBro so I'm going to pretend I think bants are bad" lmao.

Still doesn't change the fact that you don't understand analogies. What I said was X is not equal to Y, therefore 10X is not equal to 10Y. You then go and insult me because you think what I was trying to prove was that X is equal to 10X. This proves that you don't understand logic or analogy.

I understand that you're trying to use your analogy to prove your point, when it's a false equivalence.

You're saying that jet pilots can fly their planes in dog fights at mach 2 without having mach 2 reaction-time to support your assertion that Superman flying at the speeds he does in fights doesn't require equivalent reaction-time (despite the fact that there is literally official material that states he does have equivalent but that's beside the point). Only, you ignored the considerable differences between the two events in question, with Superman reacting to the incredible speeds he was flying at in ways that the jet fighters were not. So this analogy doesn't prove your point, which makes it a false equivalence, which is a logical fallacy. And now you're admitting that the two comparisons are not equivalent. So then what was the point of the comparison, if it doesn't prove your point? mmm

Oh, and I was tired at the time so I didn't catch this, but do you have a source for pilots dogfighting at mach 2? Because planes didn't fly that fast when dogfights actually were not obsolete. That's about the top speed of the F-22, and dogfights do not take place at top flying speed.