Originally posted by darthgoober
It IS portrayed with consistency, in a flurry of super speed punches each punch seems less effective than a single powerful punch.
sometimes it is. speed effects are FAR less consistent than the other things you brought up though.
Even a million punches a second isn't close to 99% lightspeed/IMP. Light speed is fast... like really REALLY fast. Let's say a character's arm is 3 feet long and he pulls his fist all the way back to his shoulder his fists would travel 3 million feet per second... after a million punches his fists would have traveled 568.181818 miles in that second. Meanwhile light would have traveled over 186,000 miles in that second.
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thanks....? you simply pointed out--again--the illogical nature of a super speed punch doing less damage than a regular punch...
That's the point, since villians and such are ALSO subject to the lessened power of the punches it supports the notion that there's SOMETHING inherent in the universe that reduces the power of a flurry of punches. It's a near omnipresent quirk of comic book physics that shouldn't be ignored.
it's also omnipresent that speedsters like flash or zoom or even ss don't end fights in the first picosecond. it's also omnipresent that superman-style bricks like superman, hyperion or gladiator don't dodge every punch a normal brick throws or use their speed to fight in the space of nanoseconds or blitz at light speed. those have nothing at all to do with 'quirks' in the universe and everything to do with PIS. super speed is a unique issue. everyone knows this.
you can't say flash NOT using his speed IS pis, but super speed punches doing LESS damage isn't. that....doesn't even make sense. super speed causes loads of problems. we don't need to resort to made up 'quirks' that make no sense. that's why we have the pis rule in place.
Yes far more frequently. MOST fights between characters with true super strength feature at least 1(and usually more) instance(s) of one of them getting knocked pretty far away. There aren't nearly that many showings where each of a flurry of super speed punches seeming as effective as single powerful punch. Now if you're going to liken those things together as things that lack internal consistency, does it mean that on the forum we ignore on panel showings where super strong characters take super strong punches without moving and assume that every punch thrown will send an appropriate distance away... or do we take things as they're shown in the comics.
i disagree, again. tons of fights have guys standing for prolonged periods going toe-to-toe and smashing each other. but super strength portrayals are shown with far more internal consistency than speed is. not sure you're getting this because you keep drawing false analogies. the contradiction with speed punches is more like watching hulk fight thor and seeing hulk punch thor across a street into a car, then watching spiderman fight thor and punching him across the street, over the car and over the building behind the car into the next state. the weaker guy hits harder?? wut? the guy that throws punches faster hits with less force?? wut? why does it happen? pis.
What's more, there IS a logical reason for characters to intentionally hit less hard when throwing a flurry that I already brought up... because 100+ punch being thrown at super speed will send the opponent out of the area. So even if there's not something inherent in the universe that makes a flurry less powerful, it makes sense for a character to hold back their full power in each punch of the flurry so they can keep their opponent in range to stack up rapid fire damage. And if we do as you seem to want and ignore "issues that lacks internal consistency" like super speed flurries and opponents standing their ground against super strong punches that's exactly what we have to consider to be the effect in forum fights... a single punch gets thrown and the opponent flies off so another punch can't be thrown without the attacker chasing him down. So no true "flurries" EVER without the opponent being grounded and a large hole forming as each punch lands(possibly destroying the planet if the character is anywhere close to a planet buster throwing IMPs).
going in circles as i addressed this point already. and it wasn't me who brought up opponents 'standing their ground'. i've tried to stay focused on the effects of super speed because that's what we're talking about.
a final time: there are things we accept as readers--we see thor and hulk stand toe to toe slugging it out over and over. we see planes and bridges and buildings lifted without breaking. those things stay vastly consistent throughout comics. when someone doesn't go flying, we don't care or even notice half the time. why--because those things are consistently portrayed across comics. and its pretty obvious no one cares by the lack of all the "why aren't characters sent flying in fights??1!?" discussions on the forum.
contrast that with the effects of super speed. in nearly every thread where a character has speed and a different character doesn't speed is brought up and argued. speed is such an issue that forum rules have been built and established around the idea of its use. some characters use speed CONSISTENTLY to hit harder (speedsters) yet others use it and hit...less hard? makes no sense. and speedsters don't always send people 'flying'. if hulk hitting someone doesn't send them flying every time, why would i expect a bunch of super speed punches to do so? in fact, in light of all the time super strong characters DON'T send someone flying, or only move them a small disatnce, if they did, THAT could be viewed as inconsistency. that's why your analogy is false and, more than that, is a strawman. you're comparing something that is consistent to something that isn't. the proof is the lack of concern people have over one, and the, sometimes extreme, concern people demonstrate over the other. to carry it even further--even with the lessened force of the speed punches, given superman's strength he should STILL send an opponent flying for maybe miles with the very first blow. but no one cries PIS about that. why? because of the way fights are commonly portrayed we don't even NOTICE that he doesn't send an opponent flying with the first punch. yet this is an idea you want to use as a 'logical' argument? ultimately logic fails. it's a comic. we draw the line at things that are most consistently shown, or should, imo.
Hey you can always make a case in a thread about "authorial licenses" in a thread involving a character with super speed, but just remember that whoever you're debating against has just as much right to site "authorial licenses" in regards to why hitting super hard and super fast wouldn't work because of the opponent getting sent flying. After all, there's just no logical way that shouldn't happen...
sure, they could. and if you wanna go ahead and call it PIS that someone isn't sent flying by every single super punch, and advocate for it to be ruled as such, i wish you the best of luck. you do seem to have an issue with it. to be clear, it IS obviously PIS (imagine how stupid fights would look if they hit each other miles at a time, the damage they would do to surroundings), but it's of such a consistently depicted nature that we as readers easily suspend disbelief when someone isn't sent flying. we don't feel the need to fish for reasons or 'quirks' to explain it away. there are characters who have made their careers in similar manners--batman, logan. the effects of super speed though are very different. as this discussion blatantly illustrates.
...OR we could save ourselves a lot of time and wasted effort and just debate according to the physics demonstrated on panel whether they make sense or not. [/B]
and i'd have no problem with that if the physics was consistently shown across the board and across characters. we've blatantly, on panel, seen the relationship between force and acceleration holds in comics. speedsters have shown it time and time again. but when superman does it suddenly the greater the acceleration, the LESS the force output? physics breaks down because he's superman? but only sometimes. that's not a 'quirk'. that's pis, plain and simple. or cis, which i'm inclined to accept. but in a typical forum fight, where the dome is unbreakable, if he were to get someone up against it, and throw 4000 super speed punches without any pis or cis? well, that would be messy for most.
we'll not be seeing eye to eye on this issue and we've already started making circles so you're free to have the last word.
tbh i don't care enough about the issue to ask for a mod ruling regarding super speed punches, but if it continues to be such an issue i would be happy to make a case for it being PIS to pr or bada.
