Valkorion vs Darth Sidious

Firstly, that's not what it states:

Lord Vitiate orchestrated the sorcery and the planet Medriaas was consumed by the largest dark side nexus the galaxy would ever see.
- Star Wars The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

So not only does this debunk the idea that the Encyclopedia is of a strictly limited perspective, but Bioware itself, with the aid of LFL, confirmed the authenticity of its content by stating such at the beginning of the book.

The Font of Knowledge and Pool of Power being in an entirely different realm negates that conflict, by the way.

Furthermore, Darth Bane: Path of Destruction reveals that both armies destroyed each other in the seventh battle of Ruusan, only resulting in a stalemate between the remnants of those decimated forces. This is what convinces Bane to go straight ahead with the Thought Bomb. So, if they're stalemated, then logically they are of similar numbers, and we know that Lord Hoth went to stop Kaan with precisely 99 Jedi Knights.

Ergo, there's no way in hell that there are dozens of thousands of Jedi and Sith captured within the Thought Bomb. The Wizards article is clearly a victim of a retcon. Drew Karpyshyn strikes again.

Well one can simply look at Darth Nyriss' own explanation of the event, which whilst based on her fallible POV, is nonetheless corroborated by other sources.

She makes it clear that the 8,000 Sith were only the eye of the storm and goes on to state that the Force itself fed his immortality, which is infact repeated by another source.

Now omniscience is incredibly impressive, you're right, but its not the only thing here which can be ascribed as being incredibly impressive. If we are taking his omniscient power at face value, then we have no reason at all to not do the same for the statements from the Encyclopedia, Codex Entries, Holonet info, Bioware staff and more all proclaiming Vitiate to be nigh-Godlike, with immeasurable and unfathomable power. It's stated that the ritual literally changed his state of being. This isn't new.

Though an entirely separate argument can be made regarding the fact that it's stated that Meetra Surik couldn't even imagine how powerful the Nathema Ritual made Lord Vitiate.

All this despite the fact that she's faced Nihilus who was a being of such power that his perceptions were essentially beyond everybody else's, not to mention the fact that he speaks a language that is literally so unknown that it could only be of a source either so ancient that he himself could never have personally experienced it, or was literally speaking the raw dialect of the Force, or another insane conclusion.

That and he's a manifestation of devouring numerous planets' worth of Force energy.

Clearly, Vitiate's ritual was uniquely potent for some reason, Drew went to the lengths of trashing KOTOR2 to establish that.

Could Valkorian scale to the world Razer?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You first claimed that Vitiate was immortal. That's a lie: the ritual only "prolonged his life" and "vastly" increased his powers. Impressive? Sure. But that's hardly immortality and omniscience.

Vitiate is identified as an immortal being in different sources:

The Emperor is one thousand years old. In a dark side ritual, he drained the life of his home planet, to achieve immortality.

- Taken from Star Wars: The Essential Reader's Companion

---

The Emperor was no longer a member of the Sith species; his power and immortality had transformed him into a being unique in the galaxy.

- Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

---

Under the guidance of the Emperor - the immortal and all-powerful savior who still reigned over them even after a thousand years - they abandoned the hedonistic lifestyles of their barbaric ancestors.

- Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

---

A being of unfathomable power and insatiable appetite, he transcended death multiple times, shedding his physical shells as they were discovered, defeated, and destroyed... only to return in another form.

- Taken from Codex Entry: The Fall of Valkorion

---

Vitiate had achieved a reasonable degree of immortality by prolonging his corporeal existence for 1000 years until he decided to ditch it altogether because he acquired the capability to retain his presence outside his physical shell and the need to anchor it to any object - abilities beyond the domain of Sith Lords and even Sith spirits. Even Palpatine could not resist pull of the void as a spirit and needed a body to ensure his existence.

Point is that Vitiate would not seize to exist on his own - bodies or not. The only way to stop him was to destroy his spirit which was not possible without the use of his own devices against it.

The statements you are clinging to, imply immortality in the context of omnipotence. Not in a generic way.

Double.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
Could Valkorian scale to the world Razer?

Actually yes, his death field on Ziost is stated to be a more powerful Force-based attack than any superweapon.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Actually yes, his death field on Ziost is stated to be a more powerful Force-based attack than any superweapon.

Are you sure the world razer is not force sensitive?
Isn't it a creature, meaning it should have a connection to the force.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Valkorion in both.

Originally posted by SunRazer

c) If you're assuming the Valley of the Jedi afforded Jerec literal omniscience, then evidently whatever Nathema afforded Vitiate doesn't compare. At no point in the 1300 years after Nathema does Vitiate display anything resembling or equalling omniscience. This isn't even an argument.

Originally posted by thesithmaster
Oh... I was referring to this:

"Inside the spacious interior of the Galactic Senate chamber, Yoda challenged the Emperor. The two engaged in a spectacular duel—a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force’s light and dark sides."

The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

It does not mention of their day or of the era, so it's simply the most powerful Dark Sider in history. Again, there's no reason to think the Son is involved. He isn't a Force practitioner, he's more of a Force entity. Yes, he does use the Force but he's above the beings in existence due to being uber powerful and being the living embodiment of the Dark Side.

Sidious>Valkorion as of ROTS.

I would say that since this is also GL intention that Yoda and Sidious were the most powerful practitioners of their respective side they are indeed above the son and the daughter if challanged on the nexus planet (which they would be able to tap into). The only ones confirmed to be potentially and exlusively above them are Anakin and Luke, which Anakin proved already.

So yeah Sidious stomps any Dark Side user sans Anakin and Yoda every light Side user sans Luke.

. . . Wut?

So, to recap: you haven't proven Vitiate is immortal, you haven't proven that Nathema is a greater nexus than the Valley of the Jedi (which isn't a dark side nexus), and you haven't proven why Vitiate's powerup would come close to Jerec's.

All you've done instead is lie and twist prolifically. I don't know why I expected anything else from the person who brought us the KOTORCG gloss holographic edition and the power of cinematic filters.

Ironic since you've complained endlessly about the quality of debates around here.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Actually yes, his death field on Ziost is stated to be a more powerful Force-based attack than any superweapon.

Where is this stated?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Per your logic, no being can be deemed immortal in Star Wars because nothing lasts forever.

Vitiate is identified as an immortal being in different sources:

The Emperor is one thousand years old. In a dark side ritual, he drained the life of his home planet, to achieve immortality.

- Taken from [B]Star Wars: The Essential Reader's Companion

---

The Emperor was no longer a member of the Sith species; his power and immortality had transformed him into a being unique in the galaxy.

- Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

---

Under the guidance of the Emperor - the immortal and all-powerful savior who still reigned over them even after a thousand years - they abandoned the hedonistic lifestyles of their barbaric ancestors.

- Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

---

A being of unfathomable power and insatiable appetite, he transcended death multiple times, shedding his physical shells as they were discovered, defeated, and destroyed... only to return in another form.

- Taken from Codex Entry: The Fall of Valkorion

---

Vitiate had achieved a reasonable degree of immortality by prolonging his corporeal existence for 1000 years until he decided to ditch it altogether because he acquired the capability to retain his presence outside his physical shell and the need to anchor it to any object - abilities beyond the domain of Sith Lords and even Sith spirits. Even Palpatine could not resist pull of the void as a spirit and needed a body to ensure his existence.

Point is that Vitiate would not seize to exist on his own - bodies or not. The only way to stop him was to destroy his spirit which was not possible without the use of his own devices against it.

The statements you are clinging to, imply immortality in the context of omnipotence. Not in a generic way. [/B]

All of which was retconned. 👆

Thanks, Karpyshyn. And he literally tells you he needs a body to preserve his spirit, literally tells you he only plans to ditch his body to take the Outlander's, we're told his immortality isn't really immortality and requires him to consume planets, and finally, what does this have to do with anything again?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
So, to recap: you haven't proven Vitiate is immortal, you haven't proven that Nathema is a greater nexus than the Valley of the Jedi (which isn't a dark side nexus), and you haven't proven why Vitiate's powerup would come close to Jerec's.

All you've done instead is lie and twist prolifically. I don't know why I expected anything else from the person who brought us the KOTORCG gloss holographic edition and the power of cinematic filters.

Ironic since you've complained endlessly about the quality of debates around here.

Somebody's butthurt. 👆 😂

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Where is this stated?

Whispered rumors have persisted of planets snuffed out through intricate Sith rituals or by way of deadly, arcane machines--such as the device Revan sought to employ on Yavin 4--but Ziost represents a clear display of the corrosive power of the dark side of the Force taken to its extreme.

What that actually says is, "While we've had rumors of this kind of thing happening before, this is a clear example." It does not say what you think it says.

Considering the entire quote-I only quoted the relevant part- is referring to global cataclysms of all kinds, and then turns to how spooky planets ravaged by the dark side are, yeah somehow I doubt this is just a codex entry about space rumors reported on Holonet showbiz. They're actively wanking what Valk did and separating it from other, similar attacks. Simple.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
What that actually says is, "While we've had rumors of this kind of thing happening before, this is a clear example." It does not say what you think it says.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Considering the entire quote-I only quoted the relevant part- is referring to global cataclysms of all kinds, and then turns to how spooky planets ravaged by the dark side are, yeah somehow I doubt this is just a codex entry about space rumors reported on Holonet showbiz. They're actively wanking what Valk did and separating it from other, similar attacks. Simple.

We really doing this? Alright then.

Global cataclysms are not unheard of.

Whole worlds teeming with life have been rendered lifeless by meteorites, broken apart by instability in the planet's own core--even atomized by the destructive force of a supernova.

But the eerie calm of a world stripped of life yet left otherwise intact is another matter altogether. Whispered rumors have persisted of planets snuffed out through intricate Sith rituals or by way of deadly, arcane machines--such as the device Revan sought to employ on Yavin 4--but Ziost represents a clear display of the corrosive power of the dark side of the Force taken to its extreme.

So basically....exactly what I said.

Maybe you can fool the idiocy of someone who doesn't actually play this game, but at the same time is too lazy to use Google, but not I, friend. Nice try, AP.