Azog the Defiler vs Oberyn

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Two spear stabs and one in the leg, manticore venom highly poisonous. If surviving that isnt being a Juggernaut then you have to search in the dictionary the meaning of the word.

Azog took one sword in the belky and he died! The weakling doesnt have a chance.

Lol! You have evidence that he can take a spear to the belky and be just as fine as Gregor was?

He endured Oberyns spear, thats better than anything Azog has received! Oberyn stomps. Azog doesnt have what it takes.

He was stabbed prior to that. It went all the way through and how do you know it didn't strike a vital organ.

Gregor laid on his back and played possum. He was thoroughly beaten. Do you have evidence Oberyn's spear can break through the armor ?

His arm was cut off, he was stabbed multiple times, and Grefor was completely lying there unable to counter without playing possum.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Why not? Thorins sword penetrated the armor. So i dont see why it would resist a spear.

Azog still has his legs, arms, head, and neck uncover. Oberyn would use his speed, venom, and long weapon to torture Azog.

Azog loses this one.

Look at the fight again.

https://youtu.be/v8KtfHdBNrw

Thorin scored a direct full power slash to his abdomen. No damage. (0:48). Soundfx is kinda decieving (soundfx blunder it looks like) but if you'd look at the sword (no blood) and Azog (not bleeding, guts not spilling out), it is obvious that the armor stopped the blade.

Looks like Azog wears a type of splint mail (armor that has interlocking plates). Thorin hit it exactly where there was a gap in the plating (at an angle where it went under the plates instead of against it). A weakness of these kinds of armor (3:54).

Because Thorin's weapons are no ordinary weapons.

Both Orcrist and Death;ess are powerful weapons, one is Sindarin, the other is Khazad Dwarven make. And both are specifically designed for targeting and destroying Orcs.

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Orcrist

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Look at the fight again.

https://youtu.be/v8KtfHdBNrw

Thorin scored a direct full power slash to his abdomen. No damage. (0:48). Soundfx is kinda decieving (soundfx blunder it looks like) but if you'd look at the sword (no blood) and Azog (not bleeding, guts not spilling out), it is obvious that the armor stopped the blade.

Looks like Azog wears a type of splint mail (armor that has interlocking plates). Thorin hit it exactly where there was a gap in the plating (at an angle where it went under the plates instead of against it). A weakness of these kinds of armor (3:54).

There is a difference between a stabb and a blow. A Sword blow can be easier blocked by armor. A stabb on the other hand can penetrate armor easily.

Spears are used to stabb. The long shaft increases the force at the edge of the spear. A stabb from a spear is stronger than a stabb from a sword. It is physics. A spear ismmade to penetrate armor.

As i said. Oberyn can still target the uncovered parts.

Azog is at the losing side.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Because Thorin's weapons are no ordinary weapons.

Both Orcrist and Death;ess are powerful weapons, one is Sindarin, the other is Khazad Dwarven make. And both are specifically designed for targeting and destroying Orcs.

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Orcrist

First of all the weapon Thorin used in the fight was an Elf sword, not a dwarf one.

They are magical sword. But that doesnt make a difference. Unless its said that they are stronger or denser then it makes a difference.

There is no evidence to say that a Spear cant penetrate Azog's armor. Else show me please.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
There is a difference between a stabb and a blow. A Sword blow can be easier blocked by armor. A stabb on the other hand can penetrate armor easily.

Spears are used to stabb. The long shaft increases the force at the edge of the spear. A stabb from a spear is stronger than a stabb from a sword. It is physics. A spear ismmade to penetrate armor.

As i said. Oberyn can still target the uncovered parts.

Azog is at the losing side.

Actually, do a little research. Spears were pretty damned near ineffective against plate armor where even a full power thrust would not pierce plate armor sufficiently to deal a decent wound (maybe pierce it a bit but not deep enough to deal anything serious). Hell chainmail (w/c is less effective than interlocking metal pieces) can turn away a spear thrust with a little leather behind it.

Simply google search it.

Oberyn can attack the unprotected parts, sure. But that's not my point.

My point is that you do mentioned Thorin penetrating the armor as proof. I merely corrected that there were specific conditions why this was so and does not apply to simple spear thrusts by Oberyn.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Actually, do a little research. Spears were pretty damned near ineffective against plate armor where even a full power thrust would not pierce plate armor sufficiently to deal a decent wound (maybe pierce it a bit but not deep enough to deal anything serious). Hell chainmail (w/c is less effective than interlocking metal pieces) can turn away a spear thrust with a little leather behind it.

Simply google search it.

Oberyn can attack the unprotected parts, sure. But that's not my point.

My point is that you do mentioned Thorin penetrating the armor as proof. I merely corrected that there were specific conditions why this was so and does not apply to simple spear thrusts by Oberyn.

I have. It all depends on the man using it, the type of spear, and the type of armor.

Now oberyn has been show to be a master with the spear. So it doesnt worry me that he wont know how to pierce armor.

Ser Gregor was wearing armor too. Yet Oberyn penetrated it!

Again, i would need evidence to say that Azog Armor is spear proof.

Obery could target the legs and arms. Inmovilize him. Also the neck.

If he hits the neck, Azog would be in serious trouble.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I have. It all depends on the man using it, the type of spear, and the type of armor.

Now oberyn has been show to be a master with the spear. So it doesnt worry me that he wont know how to pierce armor.

Ser Gregor was wearing armor too. Yet Oberyn penetrated it!

Again, i would need evidence to say that Azog Armor is spear proof.

Obery could target the legs and arms. Inmovilize him. Also the neck.

If he hits the neck, Azog would be in serious trouble.

Spears vs PLATE armor (w/c splint mail is close to in effectiveness). Look it up pls.

Special armor piercing pikes, sure. But basic spears were damned near ineffective against plate and mail.

One doesn't "skill" armor piercing. Metal plates and mail will turn away spears. If Azog's is wearing plated (splint mail) armor, it will turn away spears. What happens IRL is proof enough.

One can aim for gaps sure (spears are not as good at this because they lack the pinpoint precision of something like a dagger), one can also stab at undefended body parts (w/c I'm not arguing against). The only reason Thorin was able to pierce Azog was because of the angle of the thrust (the angle was very low allowing it to slip under the plates) and the fact Azog held perfectly still for him to stab. But this all dramatically increases the difficulty level of an abdomen stab for Oberyn.

Again, I am not arguing about Oberyn hitting other body parts (legs/arms/head/neck). I'm arguing about you saying that he would pierce the armored ones.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Spears vs PLATE armor (w/c splint mail is close to in effectiveness). Look it up pls.

Special armor piercing pikes, sure. But basic spears were damned near ineffective against plate and mail.

One doesn't "skill" armor piercing. Metal plates and mail will turn away spears. If Azog's is wearing plated (splint mail) armor, it will turn away spears. What happens IRL is proof enough.

One can aim for gaps sure (spears are not as good at this because they lack the pinpoint precision of something like a dagger), one can also stab at undefended body parts (w/c I'm not arguing against). The only reason Thorin was able to pierce Azog was because of the angle of the thrust (the angle was very low allowing it to slip under the plates) and the fact Azog held perfectly still for him to stab. But this all dramatically increases the difficulty level of an abdomen stab for Oberyn.

Again, I am not arguing about Oberyn hitting other body parts (legs/arms/head/neck). I'm arguing about you saying that he would pierce the armored ones.

The thing is, is Azog's armor Plate armor? Cause it doesnt look like to me.

Either way, lets assume the spear cant penetrate his chestplate.

Azog has his legs, arms, head, neck, feet, and hands uncovered. Oberyn would definetly massacre those points.

A spear to the head and Azog is dead.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
The thing is, is Azog's armor Plate armor? Cause it doesnt look like to me.

Either way, lets assume the spear cant penetrate his chestplate.

Azog has his legs, arms, head, neck, feet, and hands uncovered. Oberyn would definetly massacre those points.

A spear to the head and Azog is dead.

I doubt Azog would wear leather armor when his underlings are wearing mail. Plus I don't know of any leather armor that they interlink like that.

Again, I'm not arguing aginst Oberyn attacking the parts that are unarmored.

Arguing against the gut stab argument and that's it.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
I doubt Azog would wear leather armor when his underlings are wearing mail. Plus I don't know of any leather armor that they interlink like that.

Again, I'm not arguing aginst Oberyn attacking the parts that are unarmored.

Arguing against the gut stab argument and that's it.

Okay, i will give you that. Just because i dont know the material of Azog's chestplate

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
There is a difference between a stabb and a blow. A Sword blow can be easier blocked by armor. A stabb on the other hand can penetrate armor easily.

Spears are used to stabb. The long shaft increases the force at the edge of the spear. A stabb from a spear is stronger than a stabb from a sword. It is physics. A spear ismmade to penetrate armor.

As i said. Oberyn can still target the uncovered parts.

Azog is at the losing side.

First of all the weapon Thorin used in the fight was an Elf sword, not a dwarf one.

They are magical sword. But that doesnt make a difference. Unless its said that they are stronger or denser then it makes a difference.

There is no evidence to say that a Spear cant penetrate Azog's armor. Else show me please.

Yes, I am aware of this, did you click the link down the bottom? You may be surprised.

Here, let me give it to you again. http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Orcrist

Now, read that, it's very educational.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Yes, I am aware of this, did you click the link down the bottom? You may be surprised.

Here, let me give it to you again. http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Orcrist

Now, read that, it's very educational.

👆

I am making a thread. Hope you can participate.