Azog the Defiler vs Oberyn

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Yes but Azog isn't much different than Gregor. He is a bit faster and stronger yes, but i don't see him being able to cope with a fast fighter like Oberyn.

Oberyn is to agile and fast for Azog. And as i said, the poison is still there. Oberyn knows this, and won't do anything stupid as he did with the Mountain in this case.

So, the same ending as with the Mountain isn't possible.

He doesn't need that ending to prevail.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thorin was quicker and his son took on Legolas who is agile and very quick. Azog was the greatest Orc ever seen.

He doesn't need that ending to prevail.

Naah, still Oberyn is faster.

The only way Azog could win this one, is if he corners Oberyn.

But Oberyn is an arena warrior, he would clearly easily keep his distance.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thorin was quicker and his son took on Legolas who is agile and very quick. Azog was the greatest Orc ever seen.

He doesn't need that ending to prevail.

Sorry how does Thorin and Azog relate? Am puzzled.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Naah, still Oberyn is faster.

The only way Azog could win this one, is if he corners Oberyn.

But Oberyn is an arena warrior, he would clearly easily keep his distance.

Gregor broke his spear and tossed him so even he closed the distance.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Sorry how does Thorin and Azog relate? Am puzzled.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It shows Azog can take on quicker foes just fine. The guy is a highly skilled brute and merciless Orc.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It shows Azog can take on quicker foes just fine. The guy is a highly skilled brute and merciless Orc.

Oberyn is much faster than any of those dwarves. So no, Oberun can still evade him.

The lance will pierce him, then its just a matter of time how long will the venom take to react. So in that aspect, Oberyn still has an edge advanatage.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Oberyn is much faster than any of those dwarves. So no, Oberun can still evade him.

The lance will pierce him, then its just a matter of time how long will the venom take to react. So in that aspect, Oberyn still has an edge advanatage.

We didn't see the venom react to Gregor at all before he used his strength to kill him. He was impaled as well. Azog is much stronger and more resistant than Gregor.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Oberyn was still caught by someone far slower than dwarves or orcs. Plus I don't agree he's quicker with a weapon than Thorin.

We didn't see the venom react to Gregor at all before he used his strength to kill him. He was impaled as well. Azog is much stronger and more resistant than Gregor.

He wanted a confession and got near the mountain. The samething wont happen here.

I made some research, it appears Oberyn tampered the manticore venom to delay its effect. So that means the venom reacts faster than seen on screen.

Either way, Oberyn can evade Azog for hours if need be. And every minute Azog gets weaker too.

Can you prove that? And if true, what is the immediate effect? Venom can take minutes to hours to days to take effect.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Can you prove that? And if true, what is the immediate effect? Venom can take minutes to hours to days to take effect.

https://books.google.com.gt/books?id=8xYZCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA108&lpg=PA108&dq=Manticore+venom+speed+Game+of+Thrones&source=bl&ots=uB4YwssJia&sig=YHi_Gd4-PGq4Ma_LDUjWETvYN7M&hl=es&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjfl-z637vWAhWKOyYKHXqfBcsQ6AEIigEwFg#v=onepage&q=Manticore%20venom%20speed%20Game%20of%20Thrones&f=false

Page 109. Clearly states that manticore venom can kill instantly! Also says that Oberyn tampered it to delay it.

https://youtu.be/IEFpUZGs4d8

Also states that Oberyn thickened the venom to prolong its effects!

Manticore venom is saod to kill instantly and is one of the strongets poisons there is.

Again, i do have evidence to back up my claims. Now may it help you as a reminder next time you question me!

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
https://books.google.com.gt/books?id=8xYZCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA108&lpg=PA108&dq=Manticore+venom+speed+Game+of+Thrones&source=bl&ots=uB4YwssJia&sig=YHi_Gd4-PGq4Ma_LDUjWETvYN7M&hl=es&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjfl-z637vWAhWKOyYKHXqfBcsQ6AEIigEwFg#v=onepage&q=Manticore%20venom%20speed%20Game%20of%20Thrones&f=false

Page 109. Clearly states that manticore venom can kill instantly! Also says that Oberyn tampered it to delay it.

https://youtu.be/IEFpUZGs4d8

Also states that Oberyn thickened the venom to prolong its effects!

Manticore venom is saod to kill instantly and is one of the strongets poisons there is.

Again, i do have evidence to back up my claims. Now may it help you as a reminder next time you question me!

You send me a book page that has no mention of the speed of Manticore venom anywhere on it in it's unthickened state,

Thats a screenshot of said evidence so people can see I'm not bullshitting.

And the other is a fanmade video.... Wait a second here...

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
The video you posted is wrong.

Choke with my evidence.

Not following your folly.

The video I posted is an official HBO Video that comes with the DVD, right. Thats official information written my Martin, Benioff and Weiss. Yet that's false, and your fanmade video is true?!?!?!

Can someone PLEASE confirm this foolishness? I'm not the only one reading this absolute nonsense am I?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
You send me a book page that has no mention of the speed of Manticore venom anywhere on it in it's unthickened state,

Thats a screenshot of said evidence so people can see I'm not bullshitting.

And the other is a fanmade video.... Wait a second here...

The video I posted is an official HBO Video that comes with the DVD, right. Thats official information written my Martin, Benioff and Weiss. Yet that's false, and your fanmade video is true?!?!?!

Can someone PLEASE confirm this foolishness? I'm not the only one reading this absolute nonsense am I?

Yes you are clear FOOL.

I said page 109 not 108!

Read first lines. Watch your points get broken.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Yes you are clear FOOL.

I said page 109 not 108!

Read first lines. Watch your points get broken.

I already defeated this post.

The video I posted takes presedent over both your fan video and book pages in this part of the forum. You MAY have had a point in the foreign cinema of Spacebattles thread, but not here.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
YouTube video

Preeety sure this means Oberyn dislikes the use of other poisons because he can't be bothered making them. Instead, he intentionally sticks to Manticore venom.

I was unaware of this evidence.

But clearly your evidence i now use to demolish your own points!

He did say he wont use them, but if you hear all the descriptions of the different venoms, the are not fast killers.

He clearly states at the end he gets bored for waiting! Therefore he shows manticore venom. Which as i have proven before, is a fast killer!

It makes perfect sense, since The tears of lys or the strangler or the Basilisk's venom have terrible side effects and takes a long and painful death.

However the Manticores one is a sat venom, and easy to obtain.

In the battle with the mountain HE TAMPERED AND THICKENED the poison to delay its speed! As i have ALSO PROVEN.

Your video in fact, assesses my points. Manticore venom is a fast killer.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I already defeated this post.

The video I posted takes presedent over both your fan video and book pages in this part of the forum. You MAY have had a point in the foreign cinema of Spacebattles thread, but not here.

The video you posted doesnt say Manticore venom is a slow killer.

Again my point is still valid.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I was unaware of this evidence.

But clearly your evidence i now use to demolish your own points!

He did say he wont use them, but if you hear all the descriptions of the different venoms, the are not fast killers.

He clearly states at the end he gets bored for waiting! Therefore he shows manticore venom. Which as i have proven before, is a fast killer!

It makes perfect sense, since The tears of lys or the strangler or the Basilisk's venom have terrible side effects and takes a long and painful death.

However the Manticores one is a sat venom, and easy to obtain.

In the battle with the mountain HE TAMPERED AND THICKENED the poison to delay its speed! As i have ALSO PROVEN.

Your video in fact, assesses my points. Manticore venom is a fast killer.

Watch it again. It says we have to make sure it is WORTH the wait.

He used the mantiore venom on his sword when he was 16 when he fought the Great Lord, and the wound festered after the battle, and he died later. The way it is read, once the Manticore Venom reaches the heart, then it is absolutely fatal, and that makes sense as the poison rots away the muscle tissue. But like all things, it takes time for the poison to reach the heart. Some times it takes minutes, sometimes it takes hours, but never is a poison instantly fatal. Especially animal venom. Not even box jellyfish or rockfish or pufferfish venom is that fast.

Now, exhibit number 2

YouTube video

I want you to watch this video, and tell me where in the show, anywhere, that they mentioned the Manticore venom was thickened.

Here is where the point of contention will be. You will say that the books proved it/ But, unfortunately, the books are not admissable here in the Movie vs Forum as per ruling by Impediment. If this were in the Foreign Cinema All Vs, or Spacebattles, I would not even be arguing this with you because you'd have had more of a point. And I'm not arguing out of stubbornness Josh, I'm arguing these points with you because it's better me than some of the people who would take you to task much more harshly and hurl a lot more personal insults than I ever did. People on these forums lack.... patience for anything they deem foolish.

Like I said, I really AM trying to help you here.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Watch it again. It says we have to make sure it is WORTH the wait.

He used the mantiore venom on his sword when he was 16 when he fought the Great Lord, and the wound festered after the battle, and he died later. The way it is read, once the Manticore Venom reaches the heart, then it is absolutely fatal, and that makes sense as the poison rots away the muscle tissue. But like all things, it takes time for the poison to reach the heart. Some times it takes minutes, sometimes it takes hours, but never is a poison instantly fatal. Especially animal venom. Not even box jellyfish or rockfish or pufferfish venom is that fast.

Now, exhibit number 2

YouTube video

I want you to watch this video, and tell me where in the show, anywhere, that they mentioned the Manticore venom was thickened.

Here is where the point of contention will be. You will say that the books proved it/ But, unfortunately, the books are not admissable here in the Movie vs Forum as per ruling by Impediment. If this were in the Foreign Cinema All Vs, or Spacebattles, I would not even be arguing this with you because you'd have had more of a point. And I'm not arguing out of stubbornness Josh, I'm arguing these points with you because it's better me than some of the people who would take you to task much more harshly and hurl a lot more personal insults than I ever did. People on these forums lack.... patience for anything they deem foolish.

Like I said, I really AM trying to help you here.

Where in the show is it say it is a slow poison!?

No, worth waiting cause he tampers it to delay its effects.

For instance if the venom takes 1 hour to kill, it will now take 3.

Here bring more proof. Oberyn thickens the poison!

He is a known master of poisons, he has knowledge on how to tamper the venom, that makes my evieence factible.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Where in the show is it say it is a slow poison!?

No, worth waiting cause he tampers it to delay its effects.

For instance if the venom takes 1 hour to kill, it will now take 3.

Here bring more proof. Oberyn thickens the poison!

He is a known master of poisons, he has knowledge on how to tamper the venom, that makes my evieence factible.

A Feast for Crows, Chapter 7, Cersei II. Their poisonous sting is fatal to humans, with venom that kills the instant it reaches the heart. As in, once it reaches it.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Manticore

The show does not use the thickening subplot, that's the point I'm making. it's not referenced even once outside of the book.

Now, I need sleep, it's 4am, and you've run out my clock.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
A Feast for Crows, Chapter 7, Cersei II. Their poisonous sting is fatal to humans, with venom that kills the instant it reaches the heart. As in, once it reaches it.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Manticore

The show does not use the thickening subplot, that's the point I'm making. it's not referenced even once outside of the book.

Now, I need sleep, it's 4am, and you've run out my clock.

It is not contradicted outside the books neither.

The show didnt say or contradict it.

So your statement isnt strong enough to repel my evidence.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
It is not contradicted outside the books neither.

The show didnt say or contradict it.

So your statement isnt strong enough to repel my evidence.

For the purposes of vs debates, yes it is. You saying it is not does not make it so. You need to prove something is so, I don;t have to prove it is not so, that is called burden of evidence. and my evidence is that Gregor did not die immediately, and that nothing has been mentioned within the show that Oberyn slowed the poison.