Wonder Woman Vs Flash

My dear bluewaterrider, please, please PLEASE, review the 'evidence' you post.

Perhaps you're hoping nobody actually clicks on that link?

You have high aspirations indeed,and yet, tellingly, a THIRD person calls you out:

Originally posted by StyleTime
I can't believe you Wolverine fans let Bluewater get away with those incomplete scans lol.

In several of those, the very next panel or page shows Wolverine still conscious and often completely unharmed. Those aren't KO's.

And it's something I have also noticed in this thread, notably with Starro, which I called you out on.

It seems I need to be on my toes with you, and actually fact check the things you claim.

I'm serious about providing a reference log for the images posted in this thread, so as time and mood permit, I'll give a page breakdown.

Page 1:

1.1a unknown
1.1b unknown

1.2 no image
1.3 no image
1.4 no image
1.5 no image
1.6 no image
1.7 no image

1.8 Deathstroke versus JLA. Deathstroke impales Flash. Identity Crisis #3

1.9. Devastation shoots Diana. Wonder Woman #143, Volume 2.

1.10 no image

1.11 WW #143 v.2
1.12 WW #143 v.2

1.13 Flash outraces Diana while back pedaling toward a flaming J'onn Jonnz. First issue of the Tower of Babel storyline. JLA #43, page 7

1.14 Injustice League Wonder Woman (original source unknown)

1.15a Injustice League Wonder Woman
1.15b Wonder Woman #17 v3
1.15c Wonder Woman #19 v6? (2017)

1.16 WW #17 v3
1.17 WW #143 v.2

1.18 JLA #57, Terror Incognita Part 3 of 4. October 2001

1.19a Unknown DS submission
1.19b Slade versus Diana. Wonder Woman Special #1, 1992

1.20 no image

I perused a bit of the series you suggested.
Reading the following and more raised some questions, to which the answer to many seems to be "no" ...

Source: The Flash: Rebirth (2009). Issue #2

Namely: Barry is the creator of SpeedForce here. Does the SpeedForce have the same effect on Barry as Wally? Is Wally able to wield these energies as well as Barry?

Either Barry or Wally tell Christina they are faster than she.
Assuming that to be true, does that translate into both speedsters avoiding all attacks AFTER they know they are in a fight with Christina.

Wally can wield it better than Barry.
Barry tells Christina they're both faster than her despite her being amped.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wally can wield it better than Barry.
Barry tells Christina they're both faster than her despite her being amped.

Assuming that true, you have proof Wally can be struck by people slower than him, because that's precisely what Christina does.

Things get even more interesting with the following issue, Flash Rebirth #3.

This is the issue where Barry makes his infamous "those were for Charity, Clark" comment.

What's arguably more interesting and germane to this discussion is that what you're calling "infinite" energy can apparently be burned through and used up by an individual ...

To top it off we even have a segment where lightning is attracted to Barry, and Diana deflects it; proof she can either deflect Speed Force energy, or thunderstorm lightning + Zeus' magical version:

You may want to re read your scans.

The infinite energy is burning BARRY up. Which is exactly what happened when Wally destroyed Cobalt Blue and Savitar - he overloaded them with infinite energy.

Your scans are showing, and bolstering my claim,that the Speed Force is dangerous. Even to those people who have a natural affinity to it like Barry,or have spent a lifetime studying it (Savitar). It's not just ordinary electricity.

Wally has no issue with it,though👆

But of course, you'll ignore this and move on to the next point in an attempt to sling mud.

Why don't you post the scan where it says the Speed Force extends through every timeline, every reality etc etc?

Moreover...that's not speed force lightning, just normal lightning (note the difference in colour, and how it comes from the sky. Like...well, lightning).

We never disagreed that WW can deflect normal lightning....

Edit: the sky DOES seem rather cloudy.

I wonder why,when a Flash takes off,only Superman is able to keep up... Would have been a good chance for WW to pray to Hermes for some speed, or to use that portal.....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I wonder why,when a Flash takes off,only Superman is able to keep up... Would have been a good chance for WW to pray to Hermes for some speed, or to use that portal.....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

A SONIC boom? How fast is that?

Fast enough to affect Flash characters, apparently.

*sigh*. AGAIN with the ABC logic.

When I get home, I'll post scans of WALLY and Zoom. And how despite getting several hits of the sonic booms, he's still fighting.

Zoom isn't WW. Wally is neither Max not Bart. Simple things, really.

i've only read tiny pieces of this whole shebang, but it sounds like blue is trying to rationalize PIS. and while i think it's a noble goal, it seems a bit futile given the nature of forum rules. /shrug

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I wonder why,when a Flash takes off,only Superman is able to keep up... Would have been a good chance for WW to pray to Hermes for some speed, or to use that portal.....

Probably for the same reason that, when a weight less than one-thousandth the mass Diana can lift needs to be raised off her group, Superman is the one to do it:

... or when a feat requiring intelligence and her very own lasso to perform is done it is done by Green Arrow:

Source: JLA/JSA Virtue and Vice

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
*sigh*. AGAIN with the ABC logic.

When I get home, I'll post scans of WALLY and Zoom. And how despite getting several hits of the sonic booms, he's still fighting.

Zoom isn't WW. Wally is neither Max not Bart. Simple things, really.

Genuinely looking forward to it, as it will save me the trouble of trying to figure out in which of however many fights they had, Zoom actually used that technique and what the effect was.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Probably for the same reason that, when a weight less than one-thousandth the mass Diana can lift needs to be raised off her group, Superman is the one to do it:

... or when a feat requiring intelligence and her very own lasso to perform is done it is done by Green Arrow:

Source: JLA/JSA Virtue and Vice

IOW, she is unwilling or unable to do so.

PIS works both ways. Wally gets tagged by slower people; WW for all her tactical acumen and intelligence, is slow off the mark to actually use her abilities and powers.

Glad we cleared that up, finally.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
IOW, she is unwilling or unable to do so.

PIS works both ways. Wally gets tagged by slower people; WW for all her tactical acumen and intelligence, is slow off the mark to actually use her abilities and powers.

Glad we cleared that up, finally.

Overall disagreement on this particular assertion by you is probably relatively low.

That's why I generally run things through the triple filter of:

1. Is this possible?

2. Is this plausible?

3. Is this probable?

1. Possible? That a guy who is demonstrably faster can be hit by someone slower when not distracted and when knowing they're in a fight? That's not possible. After all, you've argued well that the Wally/GL/WW feat isn't a speed comparison feat...because WW was unaware she was being attacked. Has she been aware (as in this thread) she'd show GL what for.

2. See above. As per forum rules, Wally fights at optimum levels, and consistently operates at high speeds even though he doesn't do this in comics.

3. Probable? See above.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
1. Possible? That a guy who is demonstrably faster can be hit by someone slower when not distracted and when knowing they're in a fight? That's not possible.

You overlook that it is possible to distract said fighter WHILE fighting.
That is precisely what Amazo does to Wally, for instance:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
. 2. As per forum rules, Wally fights at optimum levels, and operates at high speeds even though he doesn't do this in comics.

As per forum rules, though, so does Wonder Woman, and her high end speed is a LOT higher than the average fan on this board realizes, and her strength and damage soak is up there, too.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

3. Probable? See above.

No, see right here because I'm the only one who can explain what I meant when I wrote that.

A better way of expressing "probable" might be, "Of available options based on character and what the character has actually DONE historically, what is likeliest to happen?"

Except,ABC.

WW is NOT Amazo. She's not spamming GL fists to distract, then adding maces, martial arts blows, electrical attacks, screams and arrows, ALL at the speed of Wally,who has been shown to be faster than her.

Neither does she regularly do this all.

Moreover, forum rules:

For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.

I explicitly said that the lightning attack was an example of a highly improbable attack,based on his history. You keep bringing it up as if it proves something.

I DID say speedsteal was a tactic, one which does not harm his opponent. You asked for examples. I gave you several. And yet....

Originally posted by leonidas
i've only read tiny pieces of this whole shebang, but it sounds like blue is trying to rationalize PIS. and while i think it's a noble goal, it seems a bit futile given the nature of forum rules. /shrug

Blue is not trying to rationalize PIS, rather he's trying to identify if a thing IS Plot Induced Stupidity, what makes it so, and if there are any connections or any concepts relevant and worthy of exploring.

For instance, earlier I showed Diana saying her skin should be set aflame by air friction when she's moving at speed:

But apparently the gift of Hermes protects her.

Similarly, the same should be true of the Flashes, but SOMETHING usually protects them from that effect. Burning is what SHOULD happen to them and Zoom demonstrates as much: